Another update! [img]smile.gif[/img]
Naturally, not as massive as the last one.

</font>

• Mentioned Energy Blades getting the cheesy off-hand attack after all.</font>
• Mentioned (Improved) Haste doubling regeneration rates.</font>
• Mentioned equal regeneration rates stacking.</font>
• Revisited judgment on Harm.</font>
• Mentioned Time Stop's paralysis making attacks automatically successful.</font>
• Corrected and expanded the stacking of (Improved) Chaos Shields in triggers.</font>
• Added missing creature filenames and HD ratings.</font>
• Crushed another typo. My quest for perfection continues!</font>
• Mentioned Immunity to Conjuration protecting against those nasty insect spells.</font>
• Mentioned Mirror Image and Project Image being especially vulnerable to dispel.</font>
• Mentioned Spell Shield protecting against beholder anti-magic rays.</font>
• Various minor corrections and rewordings.</font>

Plus, it's moved. Here. Should load much faster now.
Any feedback is welcomed. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yet again, I salute you Alson! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Well done!

Thanks, DJG!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Any other feedback? Suggestions? Additions?

Anybody?

<font color="lightblue">I still think you should use the Staff of the Magi spelltrap over a memorised version; because it lasts longer, absorbs more spells, and doesn`t waste a potentially dangerous (to your opponents) spell slot, which could very well mean the difference between needing to recharge it again, and winning outright while still being able to go on to your next fight... </font>

The SotM-spell trap doesnt absorb more spells, it simply last longer when nobody is trying to dispell it somehow. Both the regular and the SotM-spell trap can absorb 30 spell-lvls.Further on, as Alson mentioned a few times allready, the memorized spell trap can be re-memorized during the recharging ... shooting spells at the SotM-spell trap, wont recharge that spell-trap. So the SotM-spell trap only allows for the tactic to work once per rest, while the other can go on forever.

Thank you, Daan. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Technically, there IS a way to rechagre the Staff's Spell Trap - but the random factor of it makes it, IMO, less useful.

I have really learned a lot from your site. Of course, being new to BG and new to AD&D at the same time, there's a lot to learn though that's not to take anything away from your stuff.

However, in trying out some of your suggestions, I find in improved haste that I simply don't know what you are saying.

"This spell has a "power" of only 3, meaning it knocks only three levels off (Minor) Spell Deflection or Turning. This may have been BioWare's intention, since you now cannot destroy a Minor Spell Turning by bouncing one of these off it."

I know you are listing it as a bug, but what it means is beyond me. Do you mean to say that if you use one after the other, then...or what?

Since you are an expert in contrast to me, I wanted to let you know that this was the only thing on your site that I have found so far, that I didn't know what you meant. (Besides, I still want to know what you mean. [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Job well done mate!

pook

Oh yes, I forgot. How do you "technically" update the SOM spell trap?

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Pook

"Power" means the level the spell is considered by the Game Engine.
Almost all of the spells are correctly implemented - their "Power" is indeed equal to their level.
In some cases, like Improved Haste (which is a level 6 spell, but has a "Power" level of 3) or Remove Curse (which is a level 4 spell, but has a "Power" level of 3), there was an error in implementing the spell. BioWare were too lazy, i suppose, so they just "Copy&Pasted" spells instead of creating new ones. :rolleyes:
This doesn't matter much - but, for example, when trying to soak back a level 6 spells with a Spell Trap, don't use Improved Haste - it won't work. (It WILL recharge a level 3 spell, though [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Thank man, both for the compliment and the feedback! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-24-2002, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Using the Rest option of the Wish spell. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well, I've finally got round to reading this guide and have a little feedback for ya [img]smile.gif[/img]

Firstly I'd like to say that that's a great spell guide and it's obvious that a lot of hard time and effort has gone into its creation. I would like to comment of a few points however:

It seems that you've mentioned the saving throw bonus/penalty that some spells give, but not all of them. In order to make the guide consistent, I'd suggest mentioning all the saving throw modifiers for applicable spells. A quick browse found the following saves that need adding, but I've a feeling there's a few more:

web (-2)
confusion (-2)
slow (-4)
feeblemind (-2)
finger of death (divine and arcane) (-2)
The symbol spell fear and stuns (-4)
mental domination (-2)

There was a comment about the use any item ability, to allow a thief to use Carsomyr, Human Flesh, Ring of Gaxx, Amulet of Seradine to provide 90% MR. I know these items were only given as examples, but Carsomyr grants 50% MR, not +50% MR, so you can see the MR stack only if you equip the Carsomyr first, then the other items, but the first time you actually use Carsomyr, its 50% MR will be applied and override any other bonuses (apart from innate MR), so this combination won't actually give 90% MR.

The above comment about Charisma is a little vague. This discount depends entirely on the actual CHA value. Discounts stop advancing after a CHA of 20, with 20 giving the maximum discount of 25%.

Example (prices in brackets reflect percentage discount):
Staff of Rynn +4, Base cost: 22275
16 CHA = 21060 (5%)
17 CHA = 19980 (10%)
18 CHA= 18900 (15%)
19 CHA= 17820 (20%)
20 CHA= 16605 (25%)

The shield spell in IWD does protect from Magic Missiles (and also Force Missiles).

The following are some minor corrections to the guide:

Sword Spiders have 5 attacks per round, not 4 as was referenced by the spider spawn spell (as creatures they have 4 APR base, but have permament haste).

Here are some of my opinions regarding spells:

Cone of Cold was referenced as above, but name another spell that deals upto 20D4+20 damage for level 5 ;)

It was suggested to take skull trap over sunfire, but sunfire is available by level 9 (so a skull trap would do 9D6 at this equivalent level) and deals 50% more damage than a fireball dealing 15D6 damage! I think sunfire is a very capable spell. There's also no danger of harming the caster like there is for a fireball or skull trap spell.

I wouldn't refer to Protection from Acid as "Worthless" since it makes one particular engagement in the game much easier and it lasts an age (upto 20 turns).

It was stated that the Divine and Arcane Protection from Fire spells were identical. This isn't the case. The arcane version lasts 1 turn per level and grants +50% fire resistance. The divine version grants +80% and lasts 3 rounds +1/level. This also makes the 2nd level priest spell "Resist Fire/Cold" useful since the fire bonuses from this spell and from "Protection from Fire" are cumulative, therefore granting the max 127% fire resistance to allow fire to heal you.

Regarding Unholy Blight:

This is a tiny nitpick, but it's not possible to have rep of less than 1.

I think you've got this and cure medium wounds muddled up. Cure medium wounds heals 3 HP more than cure light wounds. Cure serious wounds cures 6 hp more than cure medium wounds.

There was also a comment about the Aerial Servant being about as touch as a mountain bear. In fact, the AS is much tougher with 128 HP compared to 70 HP.

I've also never understood the fascination with Natures Beauty. They get a +3 bonus to the save or die, and the blindness only affects a tiny 5 foot radius around the caster, so I'm not sure how you disable half the battlefield with this one. It's a good spell, but there are much better 7th level divine spells IMO.

I'm sure there were other things I was going to comment on but can't remember at the moment. I'll let you know if I think of anything else. Again, nice guide!

Alson, you are a saint!

I've bookmarked your site!

I had some queries about spells and your site really helped!

PS: I've lost my manual.
PPS: I'll help you with your site in any way I can Alson!

A little nitpick about Spike Traps. They do not affect everybody. The blue guardians in Watcher's Keep level 5 are immuned to them.

On this page, Liches can and will cast on you with direct-damage spells even if you are totally invisible. This applies to other enemies that can see through invisibility.

ADD] The website seems leery of having high resistances, judging from the way it described the various Protection from ~~ spells, but resistances should not be underestimated, and should be highly embraced at all times. Healing from the enemy is a wonderful power tactic, and there is no problem with spell disruption because you can just choose to cast when the enemy is not casting. Remember, if they cannot hurt you, they cannot kill you.

Pierce Shield was a bit of misinformation as well. It is not a RRoR+Weaker Lower Resistance, but a Secret Word+Lower Resistance. At level 20, both LR and PS lowers the enemy's Magic Resistance by 30%. 3 of these in a Chain Contingency is extremely scary to an enemy Mage. Take out one and throw in a RRoR if the target has Spell Trap.

I wholely disagree with this. ;) 75% resistance to Fire/Cold/Electricity/Acid/Magic Damage is not to be sniffed at. Combine with the Belt of Inertial Barrier and you heal from Magic Missile/Skull Trap/ADHW. Combine with other equipment, and you gain immunity and healing when possible. This spell should not be underestimated.

ADD] ADD] He's kidding right? I was slaying Fire Giants and Dragons in ToB with this spell. They key here is Greater Malison.

Your friend does know that "even if your summon does not get hurt, it will go hostile", right?

Mediocre my a**. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Feeblemind is the reason why I managed to kill Abazigal with a Dispel Magic. ;) It has a -2 save penalty, combine with Greater Malison for a -6 penalty. Throw in Doom for a -8 penalty.

Level 5 you mean. ;)

Urm... rightttt... SI is one of the best protection spells in the game. I laugh at Kangaxx and all other Liches because of this spell.

I will continue tomorrow.

[ 11-03-2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Thanks for the intelligent reply. [img]smile.gif[/img]

We only mentioned saves in cases where it was a Manual correction, or very important for the review of the spell. ;)

Yes, you and i had this discussion already. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Will replace with Purifier.

Will reword.

But since this is a BG2 Spell Reference... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yea, we already noticed it. It'll be there next version. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cone of Cold was referenced as above, but name another spell that deals upto 20D4+20 damage for level 5 ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Cone of Cold: 20D4+20 = Average 42+20 = 62.
Skull Trap: 60D6 = Average 183.
Level 3. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I didn't quite get this one.
Skull Trap is availabe earlier, and deals better damage.
A simple aiming will prevent damaging the caster.

Yes. One. :D
Every spell can be useful once, but we're talking about good overall spells.

Check out the description.
The Manual is wrong - Protecion from Fire (both Arcane and Divine) grants 100% resistance. Havn't checked into the duration part.

This is a tiny nitpick, but it's not possible to have rep of less than 1.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks. Xyx hates Typos.

I think you've got this and cure medium wounds muddled up. Cure medium wounds heals 3 HP more than cure light wounds. Cure serious wounds cures 6 hp more than cure medium wounds.</font>[/QUOTE]Not true.
CMW cures 14 damage.
CSW cures 17.
17 - 14 = [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Toughness is not all about HP. ;)
We're also talking about AC, resistances, immunities, etc...

Permanent, unsavle Blindness.
The Area of Effect is not 5 foot - it is as big as Cloudkill, Fireball, etc!!!
AND, it can be cast without breaking invisibility, which is CHEAP, considering the whole idea of the spell... :rolleyes:
The Instakill is just gravy.

Thank you for the great reply.

Yea, that was supposed to be in.
Will reword.

Are you 100% sure about this?
I'm quite sure they can't.
The only way to cast a spell on a shimering target is ForceSpell(), which most liches don't use.

That's because me and Xyx are quite heavy on the offensive playing style.
Littiz is the one that tries to balance it out. [img]smile.gif[/img]
We believe that resistances are usually irrelevent - if they can't see you (aka Mislead(TM)), they can't kill you. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Dundee, you already know my PoV about spell protections and the like.
I learnt it from Xyx. :D

I wholely disagree with this. ;) 75% resistance to Fire/Cold/Electricity/Acid/Magic Damage is not to be sniffed at. Combine with the Belt of Inertial Barrier and you heal from Magic Missile/Skull Trap/ADHW. Combine with other equipment, and you gain immunity and healing when possible. This spell should not be underestimated.</font>[/QUOTE]Name 10 enemy mages in a non moded game that use Skull Trap or ADHW. ;)
And MM is usually the last spell in the Mages script.
Littiz is a big fun of this spell, though - maybe we can be slightly less harsh about it.

He's kidding right? I was slaying Fire Giants and Dragons in ToB with this spell. They key here is Greater Malison.</font>[/QUOTE]IMO, FoD is pathetic.
Nature's Beauty is sorta like an Area of Affect FoD for Druids (Die, or be Blinded and THEN die), and if you're facing Fire Giants, your cleric should have at least one HLA anyway. Deva will slaughter a Fire Giant anyday, and will do soooo much more.

Your friend does know that "even if your summon does not get hurt, it will go hostile", right?</font>[/QUOTE]I havn't, either. Are you sure?
I will test it, and if you're right, we'll reword.

Mediocre my a**. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Feeblemind is the reason why I managed to kill Abazigal with a Dispel Magic. ;) It has a -2 save penalty, combine with Greater Malison for a -6 penalty. Throw in Doom for a -8 penalty.</font>[/QUOTE]Malison and Doom helps any spell, so it's not an example.
And the cheesy use of it is mentioned. ;)

Level 5 you mean. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks. As i said - Xyx hates Typos. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Urm... rightttt... SI is one of the best protection spells in the game. I laugh at Kangaxx and all other Liches because of this spell.</font>[/QUOTE]I wholly agree - you know how much i like SI.
I talked to Xyx about it many times, but it's HIS guide, after all.
He has the final word, and he doesn't like it as much as we do.
A matter of style, i guess.

Can't wait. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks for the reply. I was waiting to hear from you.

"It does provide total immunity to Magic Missiles (though not in Baldur's Gate I or Icewind Dale)"

I know [img]smile.gif[/img] But it was stated that this spell does not protect from MM in IWD. I was merely saying that it does ;)

How do you figure 60D6? Skull trap deals 1D6 magic damage per caster level, therefore surely the maximum is 20D6. Now that I think about it, a 20th level skull trap will beat a 20th level cone of cold, but as far as I can see, that's the only one that can for sub level 5 spells.

"It was suggested to take skull trap over sunfire, but sunfire is available by level 9 (so a skull trap would do 9D6 at this equivalent level) and deals 50% more damage than a fireball dealing 15D6 damage! I think sunfire is a very capable spell. There's also no danger of harming the caster like there is for a fireball or skull trap spell."

The point I'm trying to make here is that skull trap deals 1D6 per caster level. Level 5 spells first become available at level 9, therefore a level 9 skull trap will deal 9D6 damage. A sunfire cast at the same level will deal 15D6, and hence has much more potential for lower level mages.

My bad. I've been playing too much IWD! Cure moderate only heals 11hp in IWD.

Sorry, I worded this wrong. The divine version grants +80% resistance to *magic* fire, the arcane version grants +50% resistance to *magic* fire. Both grant 100% resistance to normal fire. The durations are different, as are the casting times, so these spells are definatley not identical.

Aerial servant: AC = 3, HP=128, saving throws: 4,6,5,4,7, resistances: none
Mountain Bear: AC = 6, HP=70, saving throws: 8,10,9,10,11, resistances: none

Hmm, both have equal resistances, but the aerial servant has a better armour class, superior HP and superior saving throws. I still can't agree with the statement that mountain bears are as tough as aerial servants [img]smile.gif[/img] .

I'll have to look into natures beauty if that is the case.

NP [img]smile.gif[/img] . I'll try and get some more feedback for tommorrow too [img]smile.gif[/img] .

I am a nut that does not use PfU scrolls when fighting Liches. I got the scars to prove it. ;)
I am a player that believes that a good defense is a good offense too, but even then, one will still need defenses to cover all possible contingencies. Bosses and such will not follow the rules, so unless you enjoy having your a** being exposed to them, best to frustrate them by taunting them with, "Hit me again! Hit me again! I need the healing!". Jim should be able to empathise with me here. ;) Although his one deals with healing from physical damage. ;) :D
Even if you dislike using Pierce Shield, at least correct the analogy or people might get the wrong idea that PS will get rid of Spell Trap. Remember, it is remove one level 8 spell and -30% Magic Resistance for a level 20+ Mage.
Hmmmm... Jon Irenicus, Shahagalar, Kangaxx, Suneer, Tolgerias, Lavok, and some more? These are the ones with ADHW, there should be more using Skull Traps. Perhaps it is because I have the Improved Mages/Liches Mod that I love PfEnergy so much, but at least put a footnote to indicate that the value of the spell increases dramatically with Mods.
Try casting Nature's Beauty with a solo Sorcerer or Mage. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] FoD is not pathetic. It has by default, a -2 saving penalty which is pretty good already. Greater Malison ensures more or less that it will work, but even without Greater Malison, its' success rate is remarkable in SoA->ToB. There is a reason why it has always been a mainstay in my spell lists since the beginning. ;)
You are talking to a guy who likes to summon 100 Skeleton Warriors and sic them on the enemy. You do not see me casting Incendiary Clouds over them as well do you? ;) This is easily testable, simply cast Ice Storm or any equivalent spell and send in a Skeleton Warrior. They are immuned to cold, but they will still go hostile because the spell was from YOU. This is NOT IWD, summons will go hostile when hit by AoE spells casted by you. The chance to go hostile is not 100%, but akin to 95%.

If this was not the case, I would have long ago abandon ADHW and choose Incendiary Cloud to use in conjunction with Skeleton Warriors.
GM and Doom does help most spells, but as before, even without them, Feeblemind still has a -2 save penalty by default.
I can empathise with that, since people think I am crazy to exclude Breach from my SSSL. ;)
No problem, although the greatest obstacle will be to settle the clash of opinions. ;)
--------
And I say not. ;) Or at least not for pre-battle buffs. Resist Fear lasts for one hour, Remove Fear lasts for 2 turns. Big difference. Remove Fear is more akin to a battle spell, to be used in the midst of battle. Resist Fear is much superior as a pre-battle buff.
This is like saying a M-16 is comparable to a Berreta. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

For a level 20+ Mage, Melf's Acid Arrow deals 14-56 Acid Damage in seven rounds. "Compare" this to Flame Arrow which does 4-24 Piercing Damage + 16-96 Fire Damage, 2-12 PiDmg + 8-48 FiDmg if target saves vs spells. 3 of these in a Spell Sequencer means KO to a Beholder or an Elder Orb.
I am not 100% sure, but judging from the MMMs that enemy Mages throw at me, it only removes one skin per hit.
Actually, Spellstrike is much sadder than that, because RRoR is only level 7. ;)
Personal opinion, but best second pick I would say. Improved Alacrity at level 18 does a whole lot more than Summon Planetar. ;)

Oh, and I agree with Jim. List out all the save penalties to avoid confusion. Correct ones can be in black. I will go through the Divine List another time.

The big brother is listening! :D

I refered Xyx to your feedback, guys.
Here is his reply:
[ 11-04-2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Judging by my Cavalier, it does stack with other items.
Erm... I get the impressive that your friend is not utilising the full potential of all the spells by being so negative towards those that allow a saving throw. Doom is one of the level one spell for a Priest. A -2 penalty to THACO, AC and saving throws is an excellent bargain for a fast casting level one spell.
Gah! His apathy to elemental resistances bugs me. [img]tongue.gif[/img] It was because of this spell that my Cavalier could laugh at many a Fire-Breathing Dragon or stand in a pit of lava while fighting Fire Giants. It is not the most fantastic spell out there, but it is useful, and not a sad spell.
Typo, "Upgrade".
Erm... 80% spell failure is good... Not as fantastic as Insect Plague or Creeping Doom, but those are level 5 and 7 spells respectively. For a level 3 spell, this spell is effective.
I do not suppose he gambles with the Cambion? The only reason why I carry around a scroll of Remove Curse for my Sorcerer. ;)
I prefer to get rid of them actually. ;) Incendiary Clouds, Death Fog, and their ilk are quite a PITA. I usually memorise one.
Friendly fire will turn the animals hostile.
Eh? You got the "much tougher than a single Mountain Bear" right, but... two things.

1) They are not invisible
2) They suck against Mind Flayers
Regeneration is possibly one of the cheesiest spells ever! If you have it active and haste yourself... you practically become a Slayer without the danger and reputation loss! Combine with the Ring of Gaxx for more oodles of cheese sticks! :D
The "insta-kill" effect only applies to Undead.

Another Email from Xyx!
Spell Reference is updated, BTW. [img]smile.gif[/img]

You start off with 90%, but the moment you swing your weapon and hit the enemy, it resets to 50%. Annoying, but there you go.
It is not inconceivable that one can complete the game without Pierce Shield, and I do agree that RRoR is better most of the time, but the description of Pierce Shield is misleading and should at least be corrected.

Assuming a level 20 Mage,

Pierce Shield remove one spell protection of level 8 or lower and lowers the target's Magic Resistance by 30%. RRoR removes one spell protection of level 9 or lower. Ergo, Pierce Shield is not <font color="white">RRoR + Weaker Lower Resistance</font>. Pierce Shield is <font color="white">Improved Secret Word + Lower Resistance</font>. Improved Secret Word because it ignores Globe of Invulnerability.
Heh, heh. Different styles of playing I guess, especially since I dislike Simulacrum. ;) It does have its' uses though, especially since the caster's base resistances are not always 0%.
That same Project Image can still shoot out 4+ FoDs if it should so desire. After all, you and I both know that the PI illusion is free anyway. ;) Polymorph Other cannot compare to FoD as enemies have outrageous saves against Polymorph. They tend to have sad saves against spells though. Weird, but there you go.
My bad, I just tested myself and verified. I concede on this point.
If you are referring to Polymorph Other, refer to my above comments regarding FoD. Feeblemind uses the save vs spell roll. Polymorph Other uses the save vs petrification/polymorph roll. Enemies tend to have much worse saves vs spell then polymorph. As for the latter, not every spell is good, but certain spells become exceptionally good when combined with Greater Malison. On their own, they are still good.
Protecting against their Wail of Banshee, total immunity to their Flame Arrows and Melf's Acid Arrows( Mirror Image is not 100% guaranteed ;) ), immunity to their Flesh to Stone, etc... These are the Liches, we also have to deal with traps that spit out horrifying spells like Maze or Imprisonment. Then we have the general-type enemy Mage that loves to cast Evocation spells. Spell Immunity generally has a use in all fights that involves hostile spellcasting.

----

Thanks for going through the trouble of reviewing our comments.

I see. I will have to give Pierce Shield more credit then.
I am referring to unmodded encounters. ;) Were I to include modded encounters, my list would be much, much, longer.
I am flattered, but... I am not the guy behind Elmonster. ;) As for cloning, I use it a lot. Alson knows about my PRATI cheese.

As I have mentioned in my earlier reply, Polymorph Other works differently from Feeblemind and Finger of Death. They use different saving throws to determine the success of the spell. As a result, Polymorph Other suffers badly in ToB, but Feeblemind and FoD continues to work well.

One of these days I should only cast FoD at a Dragon though, they do not usually survive to get hit by the level 4 spells... too many level 1-3 spells hitting them. I would garner that my success rate with sniping with FoD is around 75%, which is very good odds already.

If you want to talk about luck though... there was this one time where I slayed a Mind Flayer with a Chromatic Orb, and another time, a Pit Fiend. Now THAT, is luck.
Solo Sorcerer Spell List, it has a cousin, the PartySSL( PSSL). Speaking of which, I should update it to reflect changes needed for mods.

I must say though, this "old" dog is learning new tricks and being enlighted on several ones as well.

Here's one from me regarding Khelben's Warding Whip. It is a little known fact that KWW disrupts a Mage's spellcasting when its' grayish sphere appears. It is possible to totally wreck a Mage's spellcasting by bombarding him with KWWs.

I am so happy to hear that, Dundee.
That's the point behind the Spell Reference (well, IMO at least... It was Xyx who started it) - it is suited for the "fresh meat" and for the "old dogs" alike. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Or bombarding him with Magic Missile. Or Insect Plague. Or Creeping Doom. Or Power Word : Blind. Or Nature's Beauty. Or Skull Traps. Or... Well, you get my drift... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Enemy Mages are easy once you know your spells.
That's why i like the Improved Mages so much. They are soooo much better. Cast&Attack with MMM's was never so scary... ;)

Just got round to reading the spells guide finally(I've been meaning to for a while but haven't had the time) and I must say a job well done to all those involved! This guide has inspired me to try a few spells I've never used before. I've bookmarked this site, once again well done!

Yeah, but I thought you might want to include that quirk in your description of KWW. No other counterspell does this, at least none that I know of.

Listening to Xyx and Dundee debating about spells is something i wanted to see a long time ago... *My* best spells debates were with those two. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Xyx strikes back:

What is your playing style then? I am what some may consider to be a speedcaster. "Normal" fights for me last no more than 3 rounds( the duration of Time Stop). The key to most of my strategy is to bombard the enemy with so many spells, that even if the enemy saves or avoids some of them, the majority will still hit the enemy. It is not uncommon for my Project Image to be almost depleted after one round of Time Stop.

Some players advocate the usage of high-level, heavy-duty spells to cast on the enemy, but they tend to have long casting times. The majority of my offensive spells have a casting time of 0 after you factor in the Robe of Vecna and the Amulet of Power. Thus, I can flood out all my level 1-7 spells( and certain level 9 ones) and still have time to cast my level 8 ones( usually about 4 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting). In addition, were this to be my real Sorcerer doing the casting, you can also include all the Sequencers and pre-stored Contingencies.

To cut a long story short, I cast the fast spells first, then cast the slow spells. Chain Lightning, Finger of Death, Dragon's Breath, Wish, etc... are all above level 5, but still have a casting time of 0 due to their low base casting time. Throw a stone at a guy, and he will most likely live. Throw a hundred stones at the same guy... and he will most likely die.
Well, I do play the game multiple times. ;) Firkragg is an evil creature and should be elimated for the good of the land, and rare few will insist on skipping him( although the player is free to choose whatever he wants). Same goes for Saladrex, who holds a component to the most damaging weapon in the game. Resist Fire/Cold can see more action than just these fights though. The Guardians in Firkragg's dungeon is where Fire Resistance will come in handy as well, the Twisted Rune's Mage casts Meteor Swarm, Fire-based Traps, Imix in Yaga Shura's Stronghold, etc... ...

True, it is not necessary all the time, but it is handy when it is needed.
Miscast Magic has a -2 penalty to save, Hold Person does not have a save penalty at all. Both have a casting time of 5, and assuming the Priest's version, both last for 1 turn. Miscast Magic can also be used on Undead, Dragons, and any creature larger than a humanoid, whereas Hold Person is ignored by them.

As an early Anti-Spellcaster spell, Miscast Magic is superior.
Do they? Do they use it then? Everytime I summon an Aerial Servant, the enemy can see them without fail. Do I have to activate the ring myself?
I stand corrected.
You already know about it, ;) it is listed on your website. The Wish method. Sorcerers have an easier time utilising the Wish cheese because they can spam Wish with minimal effort. A Mage has to memorise several Wishes to even try to equal the Sorcerer in spamming Wishes, so the Spell Trap method is much better for the Mage. Sorcerers have to be careful what they choose for their spells, and Wish will help them more the Spell Trap, so it is better for them to use the Wish method.
Ah... but that is not the case. ;) Listen to what the Lich says as it casts its' spell, and observe the animation. This will enable you to know what is the school of magic that this spell is from, and allow you to cast Spell Immunity properly. With the Robe of Vecna and the Amulet of Power, casting Spell Immunity is instantaneous.

To defeat a Lich, I just need a good old sling( usually the Sling of Everand), some resistance spells( using Contingencies), and Spell Immunity. The robe and amulet are taken for granted of course, since you can easily get them in Chapter 2.
Hard to describe in words. It has to be seen to be believed.

Here are some screenshots of the tactic in action with a Necromancer before I incorporated Project Image into it,

http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/ds_s...l/Gromnir.html
That is assuming all the enemies are hulking, brooding Dragons wanting to devour your soul. ;) For the majority of fights, the enemy has no Magic Resistance, and average saves. On a side-note, success with a Dragon is easier than you think. ;) Chromatic Orbs have +6 bonus save, but the Dragon can only roll so many good saves before it fails. Polymorph is not the easiest, but whenever I have tried, it takes only at most, 4 tries before the Dragon is reduced to a squeaking squirrel. The odds become even better when I use Finger of Death or Feeblemind. It is 50/50, very good odds.
Hmmmm... just tested and got disappointed. Looks like ToB has fixed it. Dang. :(

[ 11-06-2002, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Nothing to add really, since it has boiled down to matter of taste now. The invisibility for Aerial Servants seems pointless though, if it is true, since the point of having an Aerial Servant is to smash the brains of enemies. Had it been Improved Invisibility, then it might be worth mentioning. Of course, I guess this means that they get first strike.

Cheerio.

With a +4 THAC0/DMG bonus. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Eh? That is with Improved Invisibility, and it is a +4 THACO bonus, and a +4 to saving throws.

I think that just being Invisible grants you these bonuses - becuase attacking for the shadows grants them, too. It's a mere speculation, though.

You are right about the +4 to Saving Throws, but AFAIK, it also grants "Attack Bonus" - which is a bonus to both THAC0 and damage.

I highly doubt Improved Invisibility grants damage bonuses. It is not an Attack Bonus, but a bonus to Attack Roll( as in THACO). I referred to IWD as well, and there was no mention of damage bonuses either in the character list or spell description.

An easy experiment will be to create a Mage, a Kensai, and a target. Use the Mage to cast II on the Kensai, then using the Kensai, activate Kai and hit the target( who should be armed).

[ 11-07-2002, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

I tested the Improved Invisibility out on my mage carefully writing down his saving throws, THAC0 and bonuses to damage by reading them off character information screen. Casting improved I i noticed the THAC0 went down by 4 but i failed to see any change in saving throws. Unless its a hidden bonus there is no bonus to saving throws that i can see from Improved I, even though its states that it does have it in the description. Bonus to Damage remained the same. Further digging into improved invisibility by looking at the spell with near infinity and infinity engine editor pro failed to turn up anything about bonuses to saving throws.

Bleah. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] No bonus to saving throws huh? I am a bit muddled by your comments on damage though. Is there, or is there not a bonus to damage?

The Saving Throws bonus IS there.

I'll test about the damage bonus issue.