I've got throne of Bhaal and I am gonna start from the very start of the game so I can all the items instead of startin throne of Bhaal without them. I was just wondering whether to be a mage or a Cleric?. I've never really liked being a fighter and apparantly thieves arn't much use in TOB. Especially assasins which is a shame. Druids arn't very good either in my opinion.

A cleric has the obvious benfits of turning dead as well as good spells and the ability to fight. But a mage is more powerfull in the end. I'm not really sure what benifit you get from being a wild mage apart from a few dodgy spells.

Warby

<font color="cadetblue">Thieves aren't bad in TOB but since you don't want them here's my suggestion. I personally prefer clerics. I like their spells, HLAs, and ability to use armour and weapons. Clerics are also easier to use. If you'd rather have access to spells of massive destruction and like meticulous planning then take a mage (I prefer Necromancers). IMHO Wild mages suck all arse. They don't cast spells at the same level. Too random for my liking. Good luck with your decision and have fun. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

Just to address a couple of your concerns. Assassins start off pretty crappy, but really kick ass in ToB as your backstab hits crazy high damage. Once you get your skills pick Use Any Item, which is pretty self explanitory. Thieves also get really good traps in ToB, making for some of the easiest(did I say cheesiest?) battles for any char. Lead ANY creature to your previously laid 5 spike traps, and battle is over.

Wild mages are a curiousity at best, and I never found undead that were easier to turn then to just bash them with my mace. Individual results may vary.

Mages are quite powerful, but if going that route take the best, a suped up sorc.

Wild mages certainly can be interesting but there not everyones' cup 'o mead. Maybe someone could create a wild mage NPC (nudge, wink).

I found thieves make great ToB chars. Imoen is stuck at level 7 thief skill wise, Jan is dual/classed which splits xp (I'm sure many would disagree, but that is annoying to me), and Yoshimo can't be used. Only way you'll have a kick ass thief is making one yourself.

if u want to play a theif and another character, i recommend u do a multiplayer game.

[ 11-20-2002, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: 9_1_6 ]

One thing of note about Wild Mage's: They NEVER run out of spells.

So, technically, they can cast all their spells, then use Nahal's Reckless Dweomer to cast Wish and get all their spells back. Practically, it doesn't work so well, since you almost always get wild surges. Its still worth keeping in mind, though.

One thing about any Arcane spell-caster - they NEVER run out of spells.

PI/spell trap tricks, or spamming wish in the case of the sorc.

...

oh, yeah.

Silly me.

Then again, wild mages get "unlimited" spells earlier on.

Not true. ;) You need to learn either Wish or Spell Trap to utilise your exploit. Needless to say... it will be a long time before you get to lay your hands on either scrolls.

A Sorcerer actually gets to do his/her exploit faster, because he/she does not rely on scrolls. ;)

Not true. ;)
A Wild Mage only needs Limited Wish in order to gain Endless Spells - and Limited Wish is obtainable in Chapter 1.

Here is an explanation of how it works, if anyone is interested. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-22-2002, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

You forgot the disclaimer. ;) Works for level 1-4 spells only. ;) So... unless you enjoy running around without Spell Immunity, Skeleton Warriors, Mordenkainen's Swords, etc... the Wild Mage is still limited( no pun intended) in the Endless Spells tactics. ;)

No disclaimer is needed, here. ;)
It is true that Limited Wish restores only level 1-4 spells... But what if the only spell you'll ever need is a level 1 spell? ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

First, cast all your spells using NRD (don't forget - NRD allows you to cast spells from all levels), but make sure you still have one NRD memorized.
Casting (Improved) Chaos Shield beforehand, which stacks if they are cast through a Sequencer-type spell, is a good idea.

When you only have one NRD left, use it to cast Limited Wish, and pick the restore option.
Puff!
A new stock of NRDs. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Rinse and repeat. http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull...rgyle/Cool.gif

ADD] Wohoo! I'm a Red Wizard of Thay!
Can i be a Red Wild Wizard, abusing NRDs? :D [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 11-22-2002, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

You cannot use Improved Chaos Shield, and using NRD to cast ICS is just asking for trouble. ;) You can however, stack 2 CS using a Minor Spell Sequencer.

That is +30 to your dice roll. Assuming a level 20 Wild Mage, that will be a base of 51. Quite healthy, but not exactly failsafe. Remember... you only have 5 casts for level 5+ spells( reserve one for the restoring), and all your level 2-4 spells. Unless you use your NRD to cast Project Image. Now there is a thought. Since PIs can cast all their spells with wild abandon. Still... only 5 casts of level 5+ spells per shot? That is very restrictive.

Frankly, I would rather just hit the "Z" button. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It is not wrong to say that this means a lot of reloading is required, but I can see the merit of it.

Why can't i use ICS?

Six casts, actually, because Wild Mages get +1 spell per level. ;)

What's so restrictive about it?
It only means that the sixth casting (seventh, actually, as i said above) will be a Limited Wish spell.

And don't forget the NRD is just like the Contingencies spells - 'alacrity-ignorer'! You, of all people, should know how powerful this is. ;)

Wouldn't it be bitterly ironic if you get petrified trying to cast ICS? ;)
Alson... [img]tongue.gif[/img] General Mages only get 5 slots per level.
Maybe because people want to cast more than just 5 guaranteed level 5+ spells per battle? If you fail to cast your Limited Wish... it will not be inconceivable that the battle will get very ugly. ;)

Take a look at the Wild Surge table and read all the effects for 51 and above. Using NRD is like russian roulette. It is fun, till you get the bullet. ;)

Wow. I casted 6 level 5+ spells. Woot. Sorry, not getting a rush. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

But that the whole point of playing a Wild Mage!
'Living on the Edge' and all... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Damn! I keep forgetting this!

Now, why would i fail? A bad surge?
So keep another reserve NRD if your scared. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Not getting it, are you?
Use NRD to cast x2 Mordies, x2 ADHW and a Time Stop.
How about now? Is it getting to you? ;)

[ 11-22-2002, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Alson ]

How about... I use PRATI and unleash approximately tens time that amount? If not more. Mind you, I am being very generous here and assume all six of your NRDs cast properly. About 1:13841287200 chance... so you know. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You can use the PRATI tactic... But you have to be level 18+ for that, and have specific equipment.

A Wild Mage, however, can cast spells a-la-Improved-Alacrity at Chapter 1.
I would like to see Odin Magnus do THAT. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And just so you know - you're not as generous as you think you are. ;)
Using two stacked Chaos Shields, a level 12 Wild Mage will have a base of 43.
Count the bad effect from 43 to 100.
Now, count the good and veeeery good results from 43 to 100.
Tell me if the ratio is closer to 1:13841287200 or to 1:1. [img]smile.gif[/img]

By good, I hope you mean the spell does what it is told. There is no point having a Teleport Field on yourself if that was not what you wanted. More so if you already have one active. ;) So... ...

By Useless, I mean the result is not the optimal result.

43: Useless
44: Bad
45: Useless
46: Useless
47: Extremely Bad
48: Good
49: Useless
50: Extremely Bad
51: Useless
52: Useless
53: Extremely Bad
54: Good if you have PfEvil, Bad otherwise
55: Very Good
56: Good
57: EXTREMELY BAD
58: Good
59: Useless
60: Very Good
61: Good
62: Extremely Useless
63: Useless
64: Useless
65: Can be good, can be bad.
66: Useless
67: Bad
68: EXTREMELY BAD
69: Useless
70: EXTREMELY Bad
71: Useless
72: Useless, can be bad
73: VERY GOOD
74: Useless
75: Good
76: Useless
77: Good
78: Good
79: Good
80: Bad
81: Useless
82: Bad
83: VERY GOOD
84: Useless
85: Bad, if funny
86: EXTREMELY BAD
87: Useless
88: Useless
89: Useless
90: VERY GOOD
91: Bad
92: Useless
93: Good
94: Bad
95: Bad
96: Good
97: Good
98: Bad
99: Good
100: Good

So that is about 20 good chances at best. 10:29 once, and...

... about 1681171:1000000000 for six times. Or... about 0.15%... ...

I didn't quite understood your calculations, here.
How is 20 good choices out of 58 choices over all sums up to 0.15% ?

[ 11-23-2002, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Simple maths really. For all six spells to have a good outcome, you multiply the odds as follows,

10:29 * 10:29 * 10:29 * 10:29 * 10:29 * 10:29

As shown above. Not very good odds. ;)

Who said that all six spells would have a good outcome?
A 'Useless' outcome is still not a hurmful outcome. ;)

All in all, the 'Bad' outcomes and the 'Good' outcomes usually offsets eachother - so with the help of the Chaos Shields, the Wild Mage is almost identical to a Mage - but with the added advantages of +1 spell per level, and of having one of the most powerful spells in the game - Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Pretty stars!
Useless is useless. If the outcome does not harm the enemy, I see little point in trying to use such a spell. In addition, one good outcome does not negate one bad outcome. If the bad outcome means you turn into a squirrel... 5 good outcomes will mean little. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

NRD is potentially the most powerful spell in the game, but put into practice, it is not so practical as compared to other tactics in the early stages. The only way I can see it being useful is when you put 3 ICS in a Chain Contingency. Ah... then you are more or less guaranteed that you get an ADDITIONAL 6 level 9 spells. Fear the cheese then. ;)

That will be when NRD shines, not at the low levels. To put it one way, you have a better chance of winning the lottery.

Ohh... My bad, i should've told you this before...
Playing a Wild Mage is not for the faint hearted, Dundee...
Maybe you'll be better off staying behind your Sorcerer's linear playing style. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

No doubt, Nahal's Reckless Dweomer gets stronger as the player climbs the levels.
But this is a good thing. ;)
NRD is useful in the lower levels, powerful in the mid levels, and godly in higher levels. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have soloed a Wild Mage before. ;) I have fond memories of MMM-spitting Spiders and dodging my own spells.
Consider the NRD to be a poetic metaphor of the Mage.

Sucks at first, "I can sling!"

Useful in the middle, "I can cast!"

Godly at the high-end, "You. Die."

Soloed a Wild Mage?
I bow before you, Dundee Slaytern. [img]smile.gif[/img]
That must have been a fun game.

MMM-spitting Spiders?! BG2 can't get any better then this! :D

Have i mentioned how much i like your metaphors and analogics? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Although i still don't think it sucks at first.