So... you want to be a Sorcerer eh? First of all, a disclaimer. A Sorcerer is not the end all, be all of all the classes that you can play. Some people prefer slashing their way to victory, only be a Sorcerer if you truly <font color="red">enjoy</font> using magic.

Remember that a Sorcerer can only have 4-5 spells per spell level, so even before you go into character creation, prepare a personal spell list. This spell list will allow you to know in advance what spells you are going to use, and also assure you that you will not mess up and eventually end up with useless spells, or worse, miss out on vital spells.

No two Sorcerers are ever the same. What spells Sorcerer A may like, Sorcerer B may dislike. If you prefer another spell, go ahead and use it. You are after all, your own man/woman. Sorcerers may compare spell lists for debate, but there is no universal spell list.

Party Sorcerers are different from Solo Sorcerers.

That is all I can think of now, fellow Sorcerers, feel free to add your own tips now.

<font color= "silver"><H6> I would like to ask you then Dundee, what of the sorcerer spell lists you have linked to in you Sig??
If there is no Universal Spell list and every sorcerer is different, y do you make these spell lists?? You have contradicted yourself here Dundee Slaytern. </font></H6>

Like I have said, Sorcerers can compare their spell lists. I never claimed that my spell lists are the only correct ones. There has been no contradiction, I am only sharing what my spell list is.

how the hell can you be a solo sorcerer? that's nuts!!! plain nuts!!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bahamut:
how the hell can you be a solo sorcerer? that's nuts!!! plain nuts!!! [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

I am a Sorcerer, and nutty as can be.
For I am soloing and having fun.
That's right, no party and just me!
The whole world versus one!

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/rolleyes.gif

Soloing a sorcerer is a lot of fun, but too easy so I had to bump up the difficulty level to Insane. I'm very thankful that Dundee Slaytern and others have made lists of spells that are good guidelines for a sorcerer. There is just no turning back once you have your spells chosen and I want to make sure that I'm not stuck with crap. I'm sure not all sorcerers are going to have the exact same spells, but to be successful the spell lists are going to look familiar.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
Like I have said, Sorcerers can compare their spell lists. I never claimed that my spell lists are the only correct ones. There has been no contradiction, I am only sharing what my spell list is.<hr></blockquote>

<font color= "silver"><H6> Yet you say that these are the spells you should have... i have looked through the lists and explanations...
They dont speak as if this is why you have the spells, but why evryone else should. The contardiction [b]IS{/b} There Dundee.

If it really bugs you that much, I can edit the text.

Dundee, how do you take care of healing? I don't like restarting when I do bad in a battle, but I might have to. Right now there doesn't seem to be enough free healing potions, and the cash isn't flowing so well that I can stock up on potions. I am going into the big battles stoned,blurred and mirrored and then summoning whatever I can. A couple Melf's latter and it is pretty much over but it doesn't take much to get my 33 hp Sorcerer half dead. 2 battles and I am screwed. So what does your soloist do?(it least when he sucked,like level 8 or 9)

There are enough Healing Potions in the game. Do not use the Potions of Greater Healing first( heals 27 Hp), use the small ones( heals 9 Hp). Only use Potions of Greater Healing if you are really, really about to die. Other things to keep in mind, summon your summons first, before going into battle. Let them take the hits for you.

Also, search the containers in the Copper Coronet, there is a Potion of Greater Healing in one of them. The Harper Stronghold has a lot of Potions of Greater Healing as well, so you can try doing the poisoned man quest. The Shadow Thieves' Stronghold and Mae'Var's Guildhall have Healing Potions too, just use Knock to get to them and use Mirror Image + Stoneskin to avoid the traps.

I have tried summoning the guys first, but then it is a hassle to get them fighting cause they stand behind me, waiting for me, the lowly sorcerer, to lead them into battle. I have tried putting my formation key to keep me in the back, but maybe summons don't play by those rules.

I will check out those places for the freebees, but what's with the mirror image/stoned combo for traps? The traps still seem to be beating me up even with the defences up.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lord Ludtke:
Dundee, how do you take care of healing? I don't like restarting when I do bad in a battle, but I might have to. Right now there doesn't seem to be enough free healing potions, and the cash isn't flowing so well that I can stock up on potions. I am going into the big battles stoned,blurred and mirrored and then summoning whatever I can. A couple Melf's latter and it is pretty much over but it doesn't take much to get my 33 hp Sorcerer half dead. 2 battles and I am screwed. So what does your soloist do?(it least when he sucked,like level 8 or 9)<hr></blockquote>

I made my living with Fireball and Sunfire. Early in the game, you fight a lot of people that aren't resistant to fire. Toss a fireball in the middle of the enemy group and then immediately cast Sunfire. It seems to be timed perfect each time. Right when the enemies arrive, the Sunfire fireball explodes in the air around them. Then all you need is a few MMM's to finish them off.

Make sure you always use your stoneskins. This is a must spell for any spellcaster. If they can't hit you, they can't hurt you.

Your summons are your 'meat-shields'. Select all of them except your Sorcerer and let them go first. Then when they engage the enemy, you move in.

[ADD]
Stoneskin protects you from physical attacks and traps. Mirror Image reduces the chance that the real you is hit by the trap. Later on, you can add Spell Immunity and Spell Trap to the list of protections.
[/ADD]

Thanks for the help guys.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lord Ludtke:
Thanks for the help guys.<hr></blockquote>

No problem. Have fun!

heh, im soloing a sorceror, and right now, at level 16, he just stomps people down. i must admit, i LOVE the sorceror class. too bad they cant multi or dual-class, heh.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant:
heh, im soloing a sorceror, and right now, at level 16, he just stomps people down. i must admit, i LOVE the sorceror class. too bad they cant multi or dual-class, heh.<hr></blockquote>A sorcerer/thief would be awesome!!!!

That's why I'm playing a multi fighter-illusionist gnome on insane. You get to be an excellent mage (intelligence 19 rules ok!) and you aren't completely useless in h2h.

My spells tend to be illusionary ones (you are supposed to roleplay your class you know) and charms. I find it much more satisfying to delude my opponents into killing each other, and shadows they can't see than just making them explode.

Remember, a magician is actually much more powerful than a straight fighter type in BG2, once you get by the beginning.

So examples of my spells are: dire charm, (improved)invisibility, mirror image,spook,mental domination, simulacrum. . . and so forth. Not the average spell list I suppose, but I'm having fun and that's what counts!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
If it really bugs you that much, I can edit the text.<hr></blockquote>

Dundee, just ignore this! You are a pioneer on the subject of soloing here on the Ironworks! Your lists are very helpful and aren't formulated as the only possible way at all. Maybe some people are just jealous ;)
[img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anansi:
So examples of my spells are: dire charm, (improved)invisibility, mirror image,spook,mental domination, simulacrum. . . and so forth. Not the average spell list I suppose, but I'm having fun and that's what counts!<hr></blockquote>

Heh, reminds me of my first Sorcerer. I had no idea that they were restricted to 4-5 spells per spell level, and had about zero knowledge about D&D spells. I had spells like Dire Charm, Domination, Confusion( got fed up/inspired by Umber Hulks), Disintegrate, etc... and I had no Magic Missile!

LOL

I still had fun with him however, even though I ended up relying more on my party members to do the killing for me. Heh, heh... playing BG2 for the first time... such a long time ago... ...

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Melusine:
Dundee, just ignore this! You are a pioneer on the subject of soloing here on the Ironworks! Your lists are very helpful and aren't formulated as the only possible way at all. Maybe some people are just jealous ;)
[img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Me a pioneer? [img]redface.gif[/img] Nah... no way. I observed and learnt from the obsessed soloists from the BlackIsle Forums. There were many, many fanatical soloists( on Insane Difficulty naturally) over there, Kensai->Mages, Sorcerers and Assassins were the top three favourites over there. There were also several heated debates and threads titled, "Fighter versus Mages", which unfortunately tended to turn ugly, but among the strife, I managed to pick up several good pointers.

Now you know why I know. ;)

Heh, heh... I still remember a thread that was titled something like to the tune of, "Who can beat a level 40 Swashbuckler?". The person who started the thread basically challenged people to try to therotically beat his Swashbuckler with a non-spellcaster. It disintegrated into a Flame War. Heh... ...

Ah well, anyway, thanks for the kind words Melusine, but it is no biggie. I edited the text on the main pages earlier today( or rather, yesterday) already. Might as well try to please everybody. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] ;)

LOL - ok... I just thought he was being too harsh after all the trouble you went through, and I thought his comments quite pointless - I have never seen you imply that your strategy is the only valid on anywhere. In fact, you're usually exceptionally patient and friendly to most people - that's an admirable quality that I wish we'd see more in here [img]smile.gif[/img]

And I don't know the situation on the BlackIsle boards, that's why I said you are a pioneer HERE on the IW. :D

I heard about all of these solo sorcerer spell lists. Where can i find them?

Thanks.

Uh... the links are in Dundee's signature, in the first post on this thread....

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Dundee, you ARE a great man at IW. Your lists have helped me alot in the past and the little comments you put by your screenshots are very funny.

So let's get back to the Sorcerer tips. I'm all ears [img]graemlins/knightsmile.gif[/img]

My best sorcerer tip is- Dump your sorcerer and get a specialist mage [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The only reason a Sorcerer is easier than a Mage is because its perceived to be so through a curtain of laziness. In the BG series, there is no penalty for finishing the game in 200 days rather than 20 days, so why not use a general mage and rest before every major battle, changing your spell selection to be EXACTLY what will allow you to succeed?

I think the whole debate is moot really... sure, a Sorcerer can use any of his spells at any time, but so can a regular mage given 8 hours of sleep which blinks by you in a 3 second cut-scene.

So who is actually more powerful...?

Can a Mage cast his entire stock of spell nearly 10 times over in one session? Therotically he could, but he would have to sacrifice all his level 7 spell slots to Project Image. A Sorcerer can do so, and still select other level 7 spells like Finger of Death or Ruby Ray of Reversal( one less with each successful cast of Project Image).

Excluding Edwin, can a Mage summon 6 Planetars? Can a Mage cast any level 9-10 spell 6 times in a row? Can a Mage cast a level 8 spell 9 times in a row? Will a Mage always have that 3rd, 4th, 5th, even 6th Stoneskin( or Mirror Image for that matter)?

<font color="white">A Mage may have versatility in spell memorisation, but he can never beat the Sorcerer in terms of versatility in spell usage.</font>

With a proper spell list, a Sorcerer can handle and adapt to any situation without the need to rest. You cannot use the 'can rest anyway' argument, because the fact that you need to rest already indicates that you not as adaptive as the Sorcerer.

Yes, Mages can be fun, and I do enjoy my solo Wild Mage, but a Sorcerer is where the true power lies with regards to spellcasting.

Who's more powerful? That's still up for debate.

The main reason I like sorcerers is for the fact that they don't have to constantly change their spells to fight a battle. If I think I have my mage's spells memorized for the upcoming battle and half-way through I realize that I have one or two of the wrong spells, I don't have to change my spell selection. Then when I fight the same battle and I this time I need a different spell, I have to repeat selecting what spells I think I need.

With a sorcerer, as long as I have that level spell available to cast, I can cast any spell of that level. I don't have to change my list.

They are both extremely powerful at high levels. IMHO, if a high level sorcerer and a high level specialist mage got into a fight, whoever gets off the first spell will probably win.

What you call a curtain of laziness, I call convenience. :D

Sorry, maybe I didn't state my point clearly. The mage is more powerful because of his versatility in spell selection, with a Wish or rest, he can tailor his spell choices to the exact situation at hand.

A Sorcerer, on the other hand, has to worry about crafty implementation, and using what is on hand.

I like to think of the Sorcerer as the survivalist type, and its the reason why Sorcs are more powerful is that you know beforehand what spells you'll need for most of the game, and have more casting versatility. Mages are like the magic Boy Scouts, they have a spell for every situation.

In literal terms, a Mage is more versatile and powerful by virtue of his spell selection, whereas a Sorcerer may be forced to improvise, and improvisation means he/she does not have the right spell.

Anyways, Dundee, its all semantics anyways. I know the Sorcerer is more powerful, because I have experience and know the magic system. For those who like to see ALL the neato spell effects, go with a Mage/Wild Mage. First time I tried Spirit Armor, my eyes were popping out of my head.

Good Hunting!!! ;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kaleban:
Mages are like the magic Boy Scouts, they have a spell for every situation. First time I tried Spirit Armor, my eyes were popping out of my head.

Good Hunting!!! ;)<hr></blockquote>

[img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

I think I'll throw a wild mage into my next party. I have enough fun in the wild rooms of WK. My last wild mage didn't last too long, maybe it's time for a change. (After my sorceress completes ToB)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kaleban:
Sorry, maybe I didn't state my point clearly. The mage is more powerful because of his versatility in spell selection, with a Wish or rest, he can tailor his spell choices to the exact situation at hand.
A Sorcerer, on the other hand, has to worry about crafty implementation, and using what is on hand.
I like to think of the Sorcerer as the survivalist type, and its the reason why Sorcs are more powerful is that you know beforehand what spells you'll need for most of the game, and have more casting versatility. Mages are like the magic Boy Scouts, they have a spell for every situation.
In literal terms, a Mage is more versatile and powerful by virtue of his spell selection, whereas a Sorcerer may be forced to improvise, and improvisation means he/she does not have the right spell.
Anyways, Dundee, its all semantics anyways. I know the Sorcerer is more powerful, because I have experience and know the magic system. For those who like to see ALL the neato spell effects, go with a Mage/Wild Mage. First time I tried Spirit Armor, my eyes were popping out of my head.
Good Hunting!!! ;)<hr></blockquote>

You cannot always rely on Wish all the time. The option to rest and rememorise spells is not a permanent option. What I do is cast Project Image and use the illusion to repeatedly cast Wish until I get that option. Mages do not get to have this luxury however. Gamewise, I have not yet encounter any problems with not having the right spell, but then that is because I have been refining my spell list for months already.

I am debating within the game however. Maybe in PnP it is a different story, but I do know it is 'easier' to play a Sorcerer in SoA-ToB than a Mage, taking into consideration that you are very familiar with the game and spells already.

I usually recommend Mages to people playing the game for the first time as a spellcaster, because that way they can experiment.

Cheers.

[ADD]
One thing if you notice, is that I always preach to people who want to be Sorcerers, to plan ahead. With proper planning and pre-determined battle plans, life will be easy.
[/ADD]

No argument about the spell knowledge making a Sorcerer's spell selection and life easy, but then you miss out on all the "pretties"...

Oh my precioussss.....

;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kaleban:
Oh my precioussss.....<hr></blockquote>

... pretty pretties, in the sky where no one can see.

- badly quoted from the gem lunatic in Spellhold( the exact words are lost to me), I got a lot of gems from him though.

Oh, and I have played Mages before by the way. [img]smile.gif[/img] Necromancer and Generalist Mage to be exact. A second attempt at a solo Wild Mage is also in the works.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:


... pretty pretties, in the sky where no one can see.

- badly quoted from the gem lunatic in Spellhold( the exact words are lost to me), I got a lot of gems from him though.

Oh, and I have played Mages before by the way. [img]smile.gif[/img] Necromancer and Generalist Mage to be exact. A second attempt at a solo Wild Mage is also in the works.<hr></blockquote>


I used to have my pretties, piled high beyond the sky!

Dundee, you are right, Fighter vs Mage is always an ugly case. I was in planetbg forum, and left because I got into a fight with everyone else there :D that led my way to ironworks, the players here sucked, so basically no debates... oops, I meant, they prefer to play a friendly way [img]smile.gif[/img] (just kidding everyone)

at IW, I got into fight with Yorick on subjects such as if there is wizard in asia... pretty bizzare, I know, lol

anyway, I always say fighter wins, if you dont believe me, bring it [img]smile.gif[/img]

anyhows, on subject of healing in solo

your innate ability is always a great bonus

remember to use all of them befor eyou sleep. all the damaging innate abilites (vamperic touch, drain) cast the drain on yourself, which doubles the damage and turn it into healing. cast vamperic touch on chests/boxs/barrels ahem, it drains, lol

this can give you about 40 to 60 HP on insane difficulty each time, it is pretty good for new start out

and when you got to later part of the game, there is the ring that let you shapeshift into a troll. just use the ability, and sleep, ahem, you are instantly healed after 8 hours

and there is the wand of resurrection, cast simucale from that helm you bought, and have the sim. cast wand of resurrection on yourself. full healed (it becomes absurd later on, as you will never die)

this is what I used. I rarely used potions when I soloed my assasin/fighter

I do not want another FvM thread, the bile can really burn sometimes. Tell you what, for I am very sure that we can agree on this, the smarter player will win.