<font color="deepskyblue">Alright - I'm willing to concede that mages (for the most part) are the most powerful class in the game. The right spell selection and knowledge of which spells to cast and when can allow you to win any confrontation with relative ease. So, if mages are number 1 - who is number 2???

In my opinion, it has got to be the thief! Why? Because of the <font color=white>TRAPS!!!</font>.

If I have the opportunity to set some snares before a fight, I will take a thief over the mage and their pre-cast spells any day. I honostly cannot tell you how many battles my party has "won" before they ever started fighting - all because of the traps we set.

The first time I did this was when I was searching for Firkraag. You know the party that wants to "team up" with you? Well, I refused and they attacked and I had a rough go of it. After that, I had re-loaded and had Yoshimo set down a mine field of snares for them. This time, when they went hostile, the traps went off and killed half of their party outright and severely injured the rest. All I had to do was "mop up" the leftovers.

After losing Yoshimo, I was sadly missing my traps - then I dualed Cerek to a thief. The traps didn't really make a difference until I started getting the "special" snares (Spike trap/Exploding trap/Time Delay trap). Since gaining these, I've started decimating very powerful enemies before the fight even starts. Some examples:

Watcher's Keep (2nd level) - Fire Giant prince (or whatever - the big Kahuna of Fire Giants). Killed by my traps before he ever got close to attacking me.
Watcher's Keep - The Imprisoned One (ie Demagorgon) - OK, it took a couple of tries, but my traps eventually reduced him to Near Death before the party ever launched a single attack against him. It took two rounds to finish him off.
Kurosion, the Acid Kensai - After having the ENTIRE party killed by him several times, I finally set several traps out before equipping Celestial Fury. Luring him into the traps didn't work very well, but I finally got him to "appear" right in the middle of my traps. They all went off before he could cast a single protection spell, taking him down to Near Death. Cerek finished him off with two quick attacks from Celestial Fury. Kurosion never launched a single attack (although Cerek DID take the Acid Backlash from his traps - but I had the Black Dragon Armor which absorbed 50% of the damage;))

and finally

The Random Black Sun Party that is generated by Weimer's Tactics Mod. The first time this group showed after Watcher's Keep, they killed Jaheira in ONE ROUND. Their party consisted of one conjurer, one sorcerer, one beserker, one wizard slayer, one fighter, and one bounty hunter. The second time they showed up, Cerek was outside by himself setting the traps for Kurosion. This group showed up and triggered the traps - and the ENTIRE PARTY was killed instantly. The visual was beautiful - it looked just like the opening battle scene from Lord of the Rings when Saurons physical body explodes and the resulting shockwave completely flattens the Armies of Elves and Men. The same thing happened here. The group showed up and said they had come to kill me in the name of the Black Sun. <font color=red>BOOM</font> - my traps go off (including an Exploding Trap) and the entire party is blown flat on their backs - dead as doornails.

So, I have to say that the thief's traps (especially those of the Bounty Hunter) make him/her the second most powerful character in the game. The only reason mages still get the nod for first place is because the traps won't help when the enemy sees you first. Once they "go hostile", you can no longer set traps and must resort to melee, missile weapons, or spells. That is where the spellslingers have a BIG advantage...they can still decimate an entire party with one or two spells whereas the thief will have to rely on "hit-and-run tactics.</font>

Plz dont make me say that sorcerers are by far the best and mages come second,
I cant stand another discussion on that [img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img]

yes the traps of thief are best guilds wicked and every thing nice with sugar and spice wicked wicked wicked but.....ive never tried the special traps abilitys of bounty hunter and are they wicked? but il prob stay norm theif i mean it would get kinda boring if u could just use all these wacky trap abilitys i mean normal traps alright but they are looking quite kool.

[ 02-05-2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Tom-Slayer ]

<font color="deepskyblue">Well you can stop crying then, <font color=tan>daan</font>. For two reasons.

1) I'm talking about very general classes here. For purposes of this discussion, mages and sorcerers fall under the same class.

You'll notice that I didn't delve into the different thief-kits. Bounty hunters get more powerful traps, assassins can poison their weapons, and swashbucklers have better melee' ability than either of them. But I'm talking about general class skills, not "kit-specific" skills.

Mages and sorcers still choose their spells from the same pool just like all thieves can set the same kind of traps.

2) Nobody can make you do or say anything. It's always your choice. ;) :D </font>

Sorcerers are first in power stakes. For me, the average ranger is the most fun to play with. My best characters tend to be dual-weilding rangers; especially dual-weilding katanas. This may or may not have something to do with Celestial fury+5 and Sanchuudako ;)

Probably you have heard this before, but....this is totally cheese!

Forgive me if I´m spoiling your good time...but setting traps and then making them hostile...they can´t even start the fight...it simply ruins the game.

I´ve never played a thief, but I would set traps only if I´m sure there would be battle (there´s a group of yuan-ti in the next room...beter set some traps by the door...).

Well that´s my 2 cents...

Oh, by the way....

[img]graemlins/rocking2.gif[/img] MAGE RLZ!! [img]graemlins/rocking2.gif[/img]

ya i agree thas bout as cheesey as ya can get.
i mean i stoneskin n such before going in a gruesome fight.

but setting traps all over the place getting demigorgon to near death before he even did shit
thats downright sad lol.

that way i mite as well summon 20 fire elementals , from the staff , 2 chaincontingencys of triple project image and whatever else i can think up and then attack firkraag all at once while he isnt hostile.

hell id win in the 1st round, 4 lower resictance 1 greater malison , 1 finger of death. dont even need the summons.

still,,,,,,,whatever floats ya boat rite? jus sayin.....

I'de say you posed a very good question here mate, and I also think that you dredged up the right answer. I soloed with both a swashbuckler and an assassin and they were both very effective when used correctly. It takes a lot of patience and planning to solo with a theif, but it can be very rewardng. Next to "magic users", theives are the next best class. Even if you dont liek sneaking around in the shadows, you have to admit the use of finding and disraming traps, as well as being able to unlock things. Higher level theif abilities are awesome (Use Any Item/weapon anyone?) Also there is a lot of diversity within the class, whether you like to set traps as a bounty hunter, you like to backstab people with a poisoned dagger as an assassin, or out brawl people with some fancy duel weilding as a swashbuckler, the theif classes of BG offer a variety of different experiences for the avid player. Though not as capable as magic users, I easily rank thieves as second among best classes in the game.

On a side note, if you read this Cerek, you might be interested to read my battleground thread in the RP forum, even if only to add some comments, any advice is appreciated [img]smile.gif[/img]

bards especially blades

actually i changed my mind, Monks amazingly powerful at high levels

[ 02-05-2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Angelousss ]

well, I usually use mages or sorcerors, or fighter/mages, but I'm currently cruising amn with a kick ass monk, and as redundant as this is, he kicks some serious ass!!! I did a couple minor quests and then decided to check out the twisted rune, since I had recently acquired a rogue stone, and with bare fists (and SOME strength buffing, ie., girdle of _____ giant strength) he took down the beholder in three shots and one of the vamps before getting taken out by the others who had just slaughtered the rest of my party. Yes, hindsight is twenty twenty and since then I have reconsidered my decision to take on the "runies" at level nine. But seriously, I think the monk can SERIOUSLY contend with any theif class at lower levels, and i think the monk is WAy better than theives at high levels.

And thats my two cents, Decurion