When I look at my saving throws in ShadowKeeper, is high good, or bad? Also, what are "good" saving throws (acceptable saving throws)

The lower the better. I'm not sure exactly how a saving throw works, but it has to do with the game rolling a dice (20 sided?) and if the number is higher than your saving throw then you pass the throw. I'm not sure if this is exactly right and I know you can get it so low that it goes into negitives.

Saving throws:

Game rolls a 1d20, and compares the result to your base saving throw, and adds any modifiers...

So say you were in this situation:

Your save vs. spell: -2

Some guy casts a spell that incurrs a -4 penalty to your save.

That means your save gets raised by 4 points for that saving throw, so now your save vs. spell for that saving throw is 2.

Game rolls a 1d20. Say it rolls a 8.

If the roll is greater than or equal to the required save, you make the saving throw. If it is less than, you don't.

So 8 > 2 = made saving throw.

One thing to note is that a '1' will always result in a failure, and a '20' will always result in success.

so if you have a spell that says, for example "victim takes -4 to his saving throws" thats good for the victim?

Riftmaker, all your comment's are acurate, except the last..


Saving throw's are one of the few thing's that can get so bad they alway's fail, or so good they are alway's passed.. at least that's how I remember it, you might be right and I might be wrong, but I'm not wrong very often.


and funny half capital's name, spell's that give - Negative's to saving throw's are normaly pentaly's unless otherwise noted, and + plusses are normaly bonuses unless otherwise stated.

Nope, he's right. If you roll a 1 you automatically flub the roll (critical miss) and if you roll a 20 you automatically succeed the roll (critical hit). A second roll is done to see if the damage doubles. At least, that's how it's done in with pen-and-paper.

For saving throw bonuses and penalties, the wording is crap. Often items will say things one way and spells will say another. The spell you mentioned that does -4 to saving throws (Greater Malison) actually adds four points to the roll, making a -4 penalty. It's a PITA to understand, and Six of Spades can explain it all better than I ever could.

Gladiator, your second question:

If a spell says it gives -4 to saving throw, that means it gives a penalty. If you cast it, then it's a good thing, if it's being cast on you, it's a bad thing.

Opposite for anything that says it gives +(number) to saving throw. Good for them, bad for you.

I believe I'm right about 1 always failing, my save vs. spell with my fighter is like -3, and I still fail hold person saves.

Actually, I tested this out some time ago with Anomen and Web, and discovered even when Anomen rolled a -1 (lowest possible, web has -2 penalty), he still succeeded in making his save.

Edit: Here's the thread a while back that involved this: http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...2;t=024189;p=4

[ 11-18-2004, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: JayS ]

Nope, he's right. If you roll a 1 you automatically flub the roll (critical miss) and if you roll a 20 you automatically succeed the roll (critical hit). A second roll is done to see if the damage doubles. At least, that's how it's done in with pen-and-paper.

For saving throw bonuses and penalties, the wording is crap. Often items will say things one way and spells will say another. The spell you mentioned that does -4 to saving throws (Greater Malison) actually adds four points to the roll, making a -4 penalty. It's a PITA to understand, and Six of Spades can explain it all better than I ever could. </font>[/QUOTE]You've made exactly the same misstake.


For combat a natural 1 alway's misses and 20 alway's hit's, but not on saving throws..

This mean's that spell's like cromatic orb and charm person don't work as well on higher level foes..

Try it yourself, hold person is a good example, set your saving throw's to about -8 or so and try to hold that char, you should fail every time.


BTW, you might not see this unless you have TOB installed, since in SoA your level is more limited so your saving throw's don't get as low.

[ 11-18-2004, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Q'alooaith ]

Q'alooaith is right, Pirengle. Critical "Hits" and "Misses" only occur on To Hit rolls, not Saving Throws. Get your Saves to 0 or lower and you're guaranteed to make every Save, all the time. Barring things like Greater Malison or Save penalties, of course.

As for the whole bonus / penalty thing: Yeah, it's confusing as hell especially when a +2 bonus to Saves and a +2 penalty to Saves mean the exact same thing. That's why I try to avoid simply stating "+1": Wherever possible, I directly state if the modifier is good or bad, from the point of view of the person trying to make the Save.

Even more annoying are the spells that have Save modifiers, and don't mention it in their Descriptions (I think Hold Person is one).