In my previous game, I had a Kensai I dueled over to Thief at level 14, and eventually reached level 20 in Thief further down the line after Bodhi and I still didn't achieve any HLA's.

On a similar note, Haer'Dalis didn't get them until 23 (I'm not sure for Bards, never used them).

I have the ToB booklet in my hand. It says on the graphs at the back that PC's taking HLA's from the bard/thief pool gain the first ability at level 25 and then another one every level after that until level 40.

Hmm are you sure Hear'Dalis got his first at level 23? since hes a blade he should gain his from the bard pool. This wouldnt change because hes an NPC would it?.

Levels are irrelevant. If the manual says that you should start getting HLA's at Level 20, the manual is wrong.

The manual is often wrong.

This, and only this, is the rule: You gain one HLA every time you Level Up, provided that your character has at least 3 million EXP (total) in all classes that are currently gaining experience.

Haer'Dalis will not recieve any HLAs until Level 24, as that's when Bards exceed 3 million. Your Thief will have to wait until Level 24 as well, as the experience you put into your Kensai half does not count toward your Thief having 3 million. If you were Multiclassed instead of Dual-classed, however, you would start getting HLAs when each of your classes hit 1.5 million.

[ 03-18-2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

Sorry for that, 23 was a typo, meant 24. That explains it, I normally had thieves mutliclassed so I recieved the HLA's sooner. Well, that really sucks in ways but I'll keep it in mind for the future. Thanks.

Hmm... correct me if I am wrong here. Are you saying that if I dual really, really late, I will have next to nothing HLAs?

Define really, really late.

If you Dual your Kensai at Level 19 (one level short of when you would start getting Fighter HLAs), you would have to get your Thief all the way back up to Thief Level 24 before you got your first HLA.

If you Dual your Kensai at Level 25, you will have been allowed to choose 6 HLAs, and that's going to be all you're allowed to choose until your Thief hits Level 24. (Note: While almost all aspects of your 1st class are withdrawn from you while that class is buried in a Dual, the Special Abilities gained through HLAs are an exception. This hypothetical character could use those 6 Fighter HLAs every day, even while he's still a low-level Thief.)

Ah... so a lvl 13 Fighter dualed to a Cleric will gain more HLAs than if he had dualed at lvl 20+?

Given the nature of Cleric HLAs, no. But I consider that to be a weakness of the spellcasters' HLA tables. I could integrate that little flaw into my rule about when HLAs are gained, but only if I wanted the rule to become so accurate that it's difficult for any reasonably intelligent person to understand on the first reading. [img]smile.gif[/img]

If they both have gained the same amount of XP, then yes.

Let's say they both gain 6.000.000 XP:

fighter level 13 - 1.250.000, no fighter HLA's
that leaves for cleric - 4.750.000 and that means level 29 cleric which has gained 8 HLA's

Fighter level 21 - 3.250.000, 1 fighter HLA
that leaves for cleric - 2.750.000, no cleric HLA's

High level dual classing sucks if you count on HLA's. :D

Hmm, here's multiclass fighter/cleric with 6.000.000 XP:

that would give him levels 20/21, but he would start getting HLA's when both classes get 1.500.000 Xp and that would be levels 14/15. So he would get 7+7=14 HLA's by the time they reach 6.000.000 XP! ;)