OK, here's the deal: my 3 member party--

Fanavin) Deep Gnome Illusionist3/Helm14
Frer Thanax) Deep Gnome Battleguard17
Mal Morgant) Human Paladin1/Sorceress19

--are getting their grey, grey, and pink cheeks spanked by the second bunch of orcs in Chapter 1.

My tactic in normal mode was to send out Fanavin as the primary tank. He has no strength, but isn't a fighter; his AC is pretty high (40 unbuffed). Plus he's got Mirror Image, so practically untouchable in normal mode. I'd send him out as a target and then Mal Morgant would cast Fireball/Delayed Fireball/other area spells on the enemies attacking Fanavin, or Thanax would wade in with his greataxe and do some pruning. This strategy worked all the way through normal mode, even in the last battle.

...but it's not working now. Arrrghhh!! How many hit points do these orcs have?? They're taking like 200 points of damage and don't fall down, plus they hit Fanavin nearly every round. Scumbags.

Either my party is overmatched or I'm going to have to change tactics.

Thanks for reading my silly rant.

As you noticed, HOF monsters are appreciably stronger than in normal mode. The orcs have well over 200 hitpoints, and rarely miss on their attacks. Typically, players going to HOF mode will have characters in the party who can cast summoning spells, and use the cannon fodder to distract enemies while they pound away, usually from a distance (at least for awhile).

Otherwise, be prepared to do a lot of healing very often.

<center>Nightowl2</center>

HOF mode is very tough. You have to develop new tactics. But once you do, it then becomes manageable.

A few tips to start.

1. Your attack spells have not kept pace with the number of HP that the monsters have. Do not expect damaging magics to defeat your enemies.

2. Monsters in HOF have ENORMOUS Fort saves. They rarely fail a Fort Save. However, their Will saves are pretty much the same as in normal mode. Therefore, those spells that require Will saves will be very much more useful.

3. Summoning spells in HOF summon monsters that have the same # of HP as their enemy equivalents. A simple Summon Monster 2 or Summon Animal 2 will summon one bad a$$ monster. Summons are important, but you do not need to think of them as your fighting force, only your cannon fodder to even the odds.


Hodmimir, I have very little experience with such a small party in normal mode and none in HOF mode. However, I have beaten HOF with a balanced party (1 pally, 1 ftr/barb, 1 ranger-archer, 1 ftr/rogue, 1 cleric, 1 sorc).

I just looked back at the exact composition of your party. I don't want to say that you're toast. But with basically 2 deep gnome clsics and a human sorceror, you have very little tanking power. And because the BG is a deep gnome, any attempt to take fighter levels is gonna get the 20% favored class penalty.

You, good sir, have a very tough path ahead of you.

I'd suggest that you read the following thread on HOW tactics. However, the thread probably assumes that you have a somewhat larger party than you do. That said, there is a lot of HOF tactics discussed in that thread. (My posts in that thread are under the handle "Crucis", my name on the Iplay board.)

I'm fairly certain that HOF can be defeated with a party such as yours. I just don't have any specific suggestions, due to the small size of your party and the class/racial choices of your characters.

Good luck.

[ 11-06-2003, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Magness ]

Thanks to both Nightowl2 and Magness for replying.

My problem was solved with my Battleguard casting Raise Dead, summoning an Apocalyptic Boneguard. (Normally I hate summoning spells, but HOF mode changes that...my tactics have been revised). The Boneguard did 90% of the work, with true party members taking nary a hit. Apparently summoning spells are a key tactic.

With Emotion:Hope, Mass Haste, and Executioner's Eyes, my 3-plus-a-monster party stomped through the area. Unfortunately I sometimes forget that a mage can be both buffer and bombadier. My bad.

Note to Magness: my 2 Deep Gnomes have huge spell resistence, plus Invisibility, plus Mirror Image (as clerics, they also have Heal, etc). The 3-level penalty is a minor impediment (although I would not recommend Deep Gnomes in a party with more than 4 members). I don't foresee real problems, but then again this is only Chapter 1.

Not sure what you mean by tank.

Hodmimir, you're not sure what I meant by tank??? Wow. That's a very common D&D term, at least in the CRPG's.

Tank == a heavily armored warrior whose primary job is melee fighting. Paladins, fighters, and barbarians are definitely "tanks". Heavily armored clerics with good STR can make solid backup tanks.

A "light tank" in my nomenclature is a low to mid STR, high DEX, leather armor wearing character who is primarily an archer, but is also capable in melee. Rangers and rogues are good examples of "light tanks".

Wow!! My hat goes off to you, Hodmimir.

My HOF party is:

Gold Dwarf Monk (named Hiram - go figure)
Human Priestess
Two Drow Sorcerors
Two Wild Elf Sorcerors

I can relate with those orcs. It was sobering in the beginning vs the goblins that simply would not die. My party was level one and I did lots of running away.

I've been using combos of delayed blast fireball and cone of cold. I might try the summon monster thingy after all.

double post...sorry bout that

[ 11-14-2003, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Hiram Sedai ]

Whenever I played in HOF I found that 'Charm' spells were very useful - provided the bad guys were stupid enough to be affected. Ok, Summoning is fine but Charm helps to even up the odds when you're out numbered. I also spent a lot of time fighting in narrow spaces and doorways, so that only a couple of the bad guys could attack at any one time.

And by the way, Hodmimir, any party with two Gnomes in it is fine by me.