In AD&D board games does your character gain attribute points (str, dex, con, etc) when they level up or are they stuck with what they get at character creation? It just seems to be that if you are battling and crawling in dungeons you'd get stronger and wiser etc. Forgive me http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif but that's one reason I got addicted to Diablo and I enjoyed that aspect of torment. By the way you guys like how all the infinity engine AD&D games all tie together in BGII, especially monsters. I find it cool, gives me a heads up on smite the monsters.

IIRC, you can increase your character's stats with experience in 3rd edition D&D rules; unfortunately, BG2 utilises 2nd edition rules which don't allow this.

In 3:ed you gain one point to reach a higher ability every four levels. Thou to be able to cast nine level spells you need 19 in inteligence/wis/char.

And all the 18/ something has been changed to be 18,19,30 and so on..

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Yawning lazywolf dreaming about nice little fairies...zzzzz

MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Confusing http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/img206.gif

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Bruce The Aussie, Camp Barbarian Hunter OHF
jester of LH and Master Beastmaster of the clan of the Kats

3rd generation AD%D rules are totally different from the basic rules that came out a long time ago. Over the years boredom and the need to do things let the staff members who screwed around with all the rules mess them all up. SO that with the 3rd edition rules, there is so much junk in there is about useless, that is why alot of people don't play D&D anymore.

In the origional rules, basically the stats you rolled up at the beginning were your permenant stats. The only way to permenantly raise them would be by quests, magical items in adventuring. I.E. You might find a altar in a game somewhere that randomly does 1 of 5 things. Curse you, raise your int one point, lower your dex 1 point, give you 10000 gold, or teleport you somewhere else in the dungeon. You get the idea.
You could temporarily raise your stats with spells, magical items (giant strength belts, rings of charisma, etc)

With the addition of new rules, they changed this. They added such things as age (teenagers get +1 con and str, while getting -1 wisdom. Old people got -2 con and str, while raising +2 wisdom and +1 int, etc), and lots of other things.

When people get paid for working, they create things, even things and rules that are not needed. Politicans are like this also. They get paid to work, so they make and change laws, weather they need changing at all. They have to do something for their money. If they change something, it makes them look like they are earning their money.

In all the years I played my wizard in Dungeons and dragons when I was young, I got up to level 21 mage. I had 16 STR, 18 Dex, 16 Con, 18 wisdom, 20 Int, 19 charisma. I had various powers granted over years of gaming (I had wings I could fly with, I could kill plants with a touch 3/day, I could cast a finger of death 1/day, couple other powers.). I quit playing when TSR and other companies started making up stupid rules and alot of other things.

In the beginning you could be a fighter, thief, mage, or cleric. You could be an elf, dwarf, halfling, human. 2nd edition rules put in the barbarians, monks, gnomes, half elves, many others. 3rd edition rules ruined the game with a zillion changes and rules that a lawyer couldn't figure out.

I basically agree with the above, and also quit playing about the time 2nd edition rules came out. One more point to your question though, a wish spell (level 9 mage, or magic-user back in the day) could increase your stats, but only up to 16. It seems like maybe 10 wish spells might bring it up to 17 or something. There were probably a lot of players out there saying "I'm going to sit in my tower for three months and memorize Wish spells for my stats". I think the DMs usually lightning bolted these pricks, though.

Well I have to disagree with you both, IMHO I think that the game finally has gotten the edge to be more of a roleplaying game than ever. The new system makes it easier to define your own character. Not just fighter modle 1. But as I said, my opinion.

I didn´t like first edition or 2:nd cause I missed alot of rules from more complex games, adding more flexibility and more ways to change our character from the norms. I have played alot of games and DoD games is good because mainly two things. Wuick and easy with large parties, a fntastic set of extra worlds, and books describing alot of worlds and settings.

DoD 3:ed takes a step towards the more advanced games out there, and now I think that it is getting better. The 3:ed took the spark neede for me and my friends to play again. So well, I guess the games appeal to different persons.

Bg and BG2 made me want to play normal RPG´s again and well, as it is, we are doing so now, not as frequent as in the youth but we are playing and having a good time. Most like the new rules.

Personally I liked the very complexed rules that existed in games like runequest and Drakar och Demoner Expert (Swedish game based on basic)..

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Yawning lazywolf dreaming about nice little fairies...zzzzz

3E rules are changes forthe sake of changes. 2E rules actually made sense, and actually covered a lot of what 3E does. A lot (not all) of the people who prefer 3E just like it b/c it gives the illusion that they have more power, or freedom of choice. Sur there is no limit on how many hpyou can ; but now dragons easily haveover 500hp. Ridicilous to say the least. Dragons used to be extremely tough, now they are darn near impossible. Now I probably will never use a dragon (unless it's a baby) b/c the PCs won't have a chance against it - espicially since the oldest ones can cast spells as a 19th lvl sorcerer. Hello? Dragon casts time stop = death. BTW:2ndE had kits which were really well done.

BTW: This doesn't mean I hate 3E. In fact, I own the PHB, DMG, MM, FRCS, and the FRCS. Now, I just have to get people to want to try it out.

The biggest difference is that 2E is geared towards role-playing; while 3E is geared towards power-gaming.

End of rant. Peace out.

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"That didn't hurt!" - Volourn Honourblade after the red dragon breathed on him for 75% of his hp.

Well powergaming is up to the Dm and the players IMHO. If you think that fragons are to tough, then how can your characters become powergamers??

Well I find it better because you have more skills and more magic to increase your ability to move silent, enhance your skills and making you think in other terms than just to how to storm the gates..

yes, the gamers feel very strong and and powerful and that nothing can threaten them, well, even a 14 th lvl Dwarf can roll a natural 11 twice in a row and die by cheesy 4th level spell....

I think that it gives more freedom than 2:ed because in that game i could not make certain things! So is that an illusion too? Well well, not going to get into a ranting here http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

The game is a game and brings change, some you like and some you don´t. I hae sofar never played a game that haven´t been changed by us sofar. So you don´t like something.. Change it! You do have the freedom of that! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Hehe..



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http://wolfgir.najk.net/wolfie.gif
Yawning lazywolf dreaming about nice little fairies...zzzzz

I agree with you Wolfgir. And I will change it. For example: 0-lvl spells will not exist, monk will lose it super-powers(1d20dmg per hit my BUTT), experience tables will change. And dragons will remain the toughest monsters; BUT will not be unbeatable!
Otherswise I think this game is great. However, 2E is still better IMOO!


GO DWARVES GO!

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"That didn't hurt!" - Volourn Honourblade after the red dragon breathed on him for 75% of his hp.