Listen up, everyone, because it seems to be a common thing on this board that, in the months I've been here, has been a significant problem. It has derailed threads, bred animosity, and probably gotten people banned in the past. In continuing effort to encourage us to be FRIENDS, as part of the SAME FORUM, I have this to say.

The english language, and almost certainly every other language (though sadly, I'm an American, and as such, as per stereotype, only know one at the moment) is NOT a perfect vehicle for conveying thoughts. Definitions, supposedly set in stone by the originators of the language, are subject to increasingly more variation, and the ever more complex system of nuances and connotations is difficult, nay, even impossible to completely surmount by anyone. In speech, face to face, one can usually understand the idea that another is trying to convey. Not always, of course, but most of the time, provided there are no disabilities coming into play.

Over the telephone, we lose a bit of our communication; in not being able to see the other person's face, we cannot claim to understand everything that they say. We can use context clues and the tones of their voice, but even that requires some initial knowledge of the person.

<font color=white>This brings me to my point: the internet rips away the last of our context clues, and prevents us from relying on the tone of another's speech to determine their true meanings. We communicate solely with typed words, which every single one of us applies a slightly different meaning to. In such an environment, can we hope to truly know what another is saying?</font>

I put the question to YOU. Do you understand everything that is posted? Do you know the individual's thoughts who posted?

I say the answer is a resounding "no," and encourage more tolerance on this board. Bickering and arguing about what a person meant to say, when the person may have a different associated meaning is not the answer.

Of course, discussion IS...so long as it's civil.

[ 10-17-2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Ilander ]

Good one Illander!

There's only a small line between understanding and misunderstanding it. You can perfectly think you understand things but if others for who english isn't their native language misintepretet words or vice versa it's easy to go wrong. I think you should take it into account but there must be a possibility to tell someone he/she might better use another word. Especially with the positive/negative meaning some words have. Cause IMO those don't change much if you vary factors like applying it to a man or woman they'll still have the meaning.

Nope but you might come to know it by asking and telling the chosen words might not be completely appropriate.

But I totally agree with you that you should at least think that some people don't speak native English and that you should ask before feeling too much offended (or at all)

I dare to turn this subject around and back to you. Because of the absense of context, i think we can return to the fundamental thing in discussion or talk. That which is áctually being said. The real subject without mumbo jumbo, right to the core. The meaning of the words. This allows us to reflect on what we are actually thinking, reflecting on what our principles are! In real life, I have hardly seen any real talk, any real discussion because people were too occupied not hurting other peoples' feelings. Now I don't say flaming is good, but sometime's one is just WRONG, and being a Christian, I have experienced that OFTEN. And it is hárd to accept that one is indeed wrong. That must be one of the hardest things to do on this planet. So there! Maybe this is a good thing.

Although personally I think this not to be the case, it bares some thought. I personally think we need to talk for real in real life too like we do here. The real important thing is that people cannot hold their tempers, and I believe that is where we should start above all.

You won't ever really understand what the person is saying, because the words will be different for everyone else in a controversial topic. Therefore, what you post has to be of your own opinion. Will that opinion be skewed? Of course it will. But how else are we supposed to repond to a message? Occasionally, if we perceive a person to be wrong, then we should correct them. Why not?

Yes, we can disagree in a polite fashion. Nothing wrong with that. But it only takes one person's perception of a remark to be uncalled for in order for the whole mess to come up. And in an arguement, such things often come up.

Doing the 'post like you would speak in real life' is also, in my opinion, impossible. Nowadays, on whatever forum I visit, I have to layer my posts with IMO, IIRC, IMHO, AFAIK, and so on. Because there's always something that's going to be wrong. And unfortunately, that person almost always points out that mistake in the rudest way possible. Would you speak like that in real life? I certainly don't say 'In my opinion', because I'm bloody well saying it. It's my opinion.

There's also the very touchy situation of arguing about firmly held beliefs. There's nothing worse on the internet than arguing with someone who has firmly held beliefs. Both sides feel passionately about that topic, so they naturally respond in a very heated manner. And when one side starts it, the other side's gotta retaliate.

[ 10-17-2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

Excellent point, Poo! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] BTW, you msn is being stoopid again, set to online when your away. Unless your ignoring me, in which I'm going to smack you! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

I don't think that the issue has much at all to do with who can use the language fluently...I also don't think that a society is better off when its members speak without any idea of the ramifications of their words. Accountability AND keeping an open mind are some of the most important aspects of communication, this forum included.

It's not hard to be nice...heck, if I met any of you, I'd give you a hug, and buy you lunch...provided that only one or two of you showed up at a time...and that you spaced it out such that it wouldn't exceed the input to my bank account... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Oh, and Drew, I was just lazy.

[ 10-18-2004, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Ilander ]

I agree with Ilander. It has been my experience that internationally words mean different things and hold different connotations. Hell, even in the same country words can have different meanings.

For example: In my Marketing tutorial the class was asked by our American Lecturer who would like some icecream. I responded: HELL YES!

The lecturer proceeded to reprimand me for "swearing". I then found out that some Americans (note, I said SOME) see the words "hell" and "damn" as cuss words... where over here in Australia I think VERY few people would consider these words in the same offensive manner.

My point: different cultures and different people treat the same words differently. It should be our responsibility to recognise this and if you are EVER in doubt, simply ask the author of the post what they meant.

IMHO, of course :D

Edit: Thanks Lyle ;)

[ 10-18-2004, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Dave_the_quack ]

In spite of the double negative, I'm glad you think that way Dave ;)

"Hell" and "damn" are not foul words there???????????

Whooo...our fine old protestant tight-arses here wouldn't stand for THAT...

LoL, yeah, I know, im retarded.

Leave me alone though, its my right to be retarded and by god, I choose it [img]smile.gif[/img]

About the marketing lecturer, heh.... she WAS about 64.... just wanted to mention that in case it had anything to do with her views on certain "profanities".... :D