[Luvian]

Originally posted by IAmThumper: Oh my.... Oh my goodness!!! I thought I was writing long posts. There has been so much said I can't keep who said what straight anymore. LOL. I'll try to be concise. LOL First I applaud anyone who fights silly illogical stereotypes. I don't think people try to fight stereotypes towards men enough though. I don't know who wrote this (Can't keep it straight, heck I can't even find it) "that most abuse is done by men towards women". The fact is that violence in the home is done about equally by both men and women and in reality it's actually slightly more women doing the abusing then men. Most deaths are actually women killing men and family members. 54% of lesbian couples report having been abused by their (lesbian) partners and only 14% of gays report the same. People only hear about violence against women and violence against men is often unreported so it's easy to understand why you would think so. I think there is a stupid stereotype that men are abusers which it only starting to be confronted.

I have nothing to add to this.

I do get what Luvian is saying. You aren't fighting the fact that the female limit of physical strength is less then the male limit but that people set the limit too low for women. I don't believe most people do this (or at least it's a bit exagerated) and I'll try to explain...

I don't think it's exagerated. Most people do it sometimes unconsiously. It just that it's in tiny uninportant things. I'm sure I do it sometimes, too.

Luvian, you said "It's not my fault if most people underestimate women and overestimate men." Oh man I can't tell you how much this sounds like feminist brain-washing to me! Sure there are truly sexist dinosaurs out there but I think people get this opinion mainly from feminist groups that propagate it for their own gain. As long as this is "true" then feminist groups have an excuse to help women and knock down men so they propagate the idea. The same kind of thing is happening with the propagation of men as abusers (imo).

What you just quoted me saying is true. Just look at all the examples and opinions people gave in this thread. Men did get overrated and women did get underrated. The perfect example to this is when people kept comparing men to the perfect men, and women to some typical house wife. That's a totaly unfair comparison.

And no, I don't listen to feminist group, I create my own opinion from what I see. I consider most of feminist I've seen to be sexist.

The simply fact is as long as these opinions exist (unchallenged) men and women will never be equal.

That's why I'm trying to make people accept both as equal, but as you can see, most people don't want to accept that.

I don't see any evidence that anyone is underestimating women here only being realistic and looking at the facts and their observations. I hope you are not continuing this argument simply for this belief.

Look again, and re-read my posts, and you should see. I gave lots of example already.

People don't only underestimate women when it come to strength. They do it with almost everything. Of course it's not as bad as what the old sexist dinosaurs think and say, but it's still something that should be stoped.

That girl is amazing. I would actually go so far as saying she has 17 or 18 strength (If anyone wanted to they could look it up in the rules!). But I think that in the real world women wouldn't get into the 1100) range which the AD&D game restricts to the truly exceptional.

Now that comment really annoyed me. I DID look into the rules. Where do you think I pulled my numbers from? What do you guys take me for?.

And yes, she is stroner than basic 18 str. She lifted 300 pounds, and the 151-75) range is 305, so I guess it's safe to assume she would be in that section today. Bbut if you want to go by the 300 pounds, that would put her in the 01-50 range, which cap at 280. I guess she would be 50 and a half.

[ 08-28-2003, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]