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NobleNick · 10-13-2002, 05:26 PM

CursedShadow,

Hard to give specific advice when I don't know your party composition, but...

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Do you mean the level with the, phase spiders, sword spiders a few lizardmen, and beetles, captive children (including Conlan's son) and contains a very narrow, dark passage down to a big room with a big altar with about 8 trolls (not goblins) and 4 talonite priests and priestesses holding the priestess of Ilmater captive? The level which also has a downward spiraling pathway to the next level? I think this is the second level; and I just completed it (for the 2nd time) last night.

Yeah, this can be really tough. The initial encounter is, by far, the hardest part, since all of the talonites and most of the trolls come after you right from the start.

First off, you know about the trolls-not-really-dying thing, right? They will look dead, but the only way to finish them off is to hit them while they are lying there with something like fire arrows, acid arrows, magic missile or (my favorite) those jars of flaming oil you collected from the lizard shamans on the same level and on D.E. level one.

Second off, the trolls are nasty but the talonites (priests/priestesse) are nastier! I'd prefer to take on 8 trolls simultaneously, rather than 2 priestesses and 2 trolls: Getting "hold person" thrown on you is a big time bummer. Target these fine folks first, anytime that they are within sight, or you'll be sorry.

Third, I hope you have a magic user. (Also, a bard carrying "Bardic horn of Valhalla," while not a necessity, will increase your chances of surviving this encounter.)

Finally, I cheat a little: I allow myself to run each of my characters solo through the quest reward sequences; so, by the time I got to D.E. level 2, each member of my party was about a level above where they should have been if playing the game straight through. If you find yourself stuck, or just want that extra "Umph!" to make things slightly easier: Go back to your last save before you freed the prisoners at the end of D.E. 1 (you DO keep a running trail of frequent saves, don't you?) and run each party member solo though the reward sequence and export, or save to separate games. Regroup, then slash your way to Conlan's son on level 2 and repeat. Should get you an extra level on most of your party.

The first time I did this battle, I had a full party of: Paladin, 4 Fighters and Thief/Illusionist. (The reason for so many fighters is that 3 of them were slated to dual over to other classes, but hadn't progressed far enough, yet.) Everyone was specializing, to the max extent possible, in bows (fighters were all bows+++). Everyone had regular arrows at the ready and acid or fire arrows available. Everyone was rested after the encounter in the cave at the top of the passage that leads down to the altar room, and game is SAVED at that point.

Prefight: IIRC, with everyone else at the top of the passageway, I took Sashii, my thief/Illusionist, down the passageway until she got spied by a troll then she runs like a banshee back up the passageway. At the top, she gets through the hole left in the ranks of the fighters and then turns to....

Round 1: cast web in the passage, as far up as possible without "holding" own party. (Summon monster would be much more effective way of blocking the passage, if you've got it.) Meanwhile, the first thing to appear at the bottom of the passage is a troll; and he gets crucified with a rain of arrows. One fighter switches to acid/fire arrow to finish him off in the next round (important), while the rest wait (very important) for the first priest(ess) to show.

Round 2: By this time, web is cast, which may slow down the trolls a little. A talonite (priestess or possibly priest) should show by now, and EVERYONE targets her. Sashii throws Aganazzar's scorcher at her, and if the troll from round 1 will take fire damage from this spell, then free up the fighter that would have finished up the troll and use him to also target the priestess: She needs to go down in this round, because getting held = death. (You should get a lot of collateral damage to trolls with A. Scorcher. Long narrow passages are what this spell is made for, so remember to "stock up" on these when you rest before this battle. Fireball would be great, too, but you may not have it, yet.) As soon as your round 2 combat actions are complete, retreat well back into the cave at top of the passage (out of sight of any casters who will certainly appear at the bottom of the passage.)

Round 3: Hopefully this round starts with 1 dead troll (out of maybe 6 who joined the initial charge) 1 dead talonite (out of 4) and a bunch (maybe 4 or five) angry trolls, some hurting and some held. After the group retreats well back into the cave, Sashii moves to the side, and any seriously hurt fighter moves to the back, of the group. Time to switch to acid/fire arrows if the fighters haven't already. The entire group targets one or two of the most badly wounded trolls as they emerge from the passageway, and Sashii throws another web at the mouth of the passageway, or targets Scorcher or flaming oil on the troll in the best position to extract the most collateral damage possible (beware of friendly fire.) If a talonite pops out of the passage, everyone (or enough to ensure a kill) targets her or, if the situation won't allow that, runs.

If enough trolls and priestesses get held, they will pop out one or two at a time, each one individually feeling the full wrath of the party. If things don't go this well, the party may need to fight a running engagement, possibly all the way back to the previous level (Level 1) and rest before re-engaging. Do NOT stand around within sight of talonite, unless s/he is alone (no other talonites) and things are going well enough that you can devote sufficient firepower to ensure a very quick kill. IIRC, things did not go well for me, in this respect, but the party recovered when Sashii managed to get off a few Scorchers that each fried about 4-5 trolls/talonites (I LOVE this spell!).

With my second time through, 3 things were different: 1.) I had imported Sashii, who was, by now, a journeyman (level 8) thief/mage with Fireball and Summon Monsters I at her disposal; 2.) there were only three characters in the party, including only one fighter, Druulf; and 3.) I had Bree, a bard, for whom I had bought "Bardic Horn of Valhalla."

After several reloads and changes of tactics, I got the following to work:

Pre-fight: Sashii hides and gets down passage just far enough to see first troll on altar, Bree moves up behind. Bree summons berserkers slightly to the right and Sashii cast summon monters slightly to the left of the bottom of the passageway. Both high-tail it up to Druulf, who is standing in the passage, about halfway between the cave and the altar room. The enemy runs to engage the summoned berserkers and fire beetles.

Round 1/2: Sashii cast web down passage, between the party and their summoned help. Druulf takes shot at anything that appears (especially talonites). Talonites, seeing fire beetles first, waste their holds on them: Excellent!

Round 3: Sashii and Bree stand side by side at top of web area and both cut loose with a double-barreled Scorcher at talonites, also toasting any trolls trying to come up the passage. Just behind, Druulf also shoots at talonites. (Ain't that funny: the tank standing BEHIND the magic users!) Berserker attention seems to be evenly divided between trolls and talonites: could be worse.

Round 4: Bree finds an opportunity to cast skull trap near talonites. Sashii casts another scorcher. Both magic users are careful not to harm berserkers.

Round 5: Bree casts her last scorcher at the farthest troll she can target without harming a berserker, while Sashii casts her last summon monsters, to replace all the fire beetles that the trolls have pulverized, hoping to take heat off of the berserkers, so they can finish off talonites. Both magic users have taken troll hits, so move behind Druulf.

Round 6: Druulf keeps aim on talonite, even though taking a pounding from troll. Bree casts magic missile on talonite. Sashii manuevers and then casts another Scorcher at a target down the passageway, so as to also nick the troll in front of Druulf. Last talonite (Yea!!) and berserker go down.

Round 7/8/9: The rest is mop up: Bree casts magic missile on troll pounding on Druulf. Druulf starts paying attention to him, too. Sashii casts fireball down the passage at the trolls still engaged with fire beetles (placing so as not to hurt beetles), then switches to acid arrows / magic missile to help pick off the almost dead trolls. The party is over.

Hope this helps.

Party On!

edited for spelling, clarity and content

[ 10-13-2002, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-13-2002, 05:26 PM	#3
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	CursedShadow, Hard to give specific advice when I don't know your party composition, but... (spoiler) . . . . . . . . . . Do you mean the level with the, phase spiders, sword spiders a few lizardmen, and beetles, captive children (including Conlan's son) and contains a very narrow, dark passage down to a big room with a big altar with about 8 trolls (not goblins) and 4 talonite priests and priestesses holding the priestess of Ilmater captive? The level which also has a downward spiraling pathway to the next level? I think this is the second level; and I just completed it (for the 2nd time) last night. Yeah, this can be really tough. The initial encounter is, by far, the hardest part, since all of the talonites and most of the trolls come after you right from the start. First off, you know about the trolls-not-really-dying thing, right? They will look dead, but the only way to finish them off is to hit them while they are lying there with something like fire arrows, acid arrows, magic missile or (my favorite) those jars of flaming oil you collected from the lizard shamans on the same level and on D.E. level one. Second off, the trolls are nasty but the talonites (priests/priestesse) are nastier! I'd prefer to take on 8 trolls simultaneously, rather than 2 priestesses and 2 trolls: Getting "hold person" thrown on you is a big time bummer. Target these fine folks first, anytime that they are within sight, or you'll be sorry. Third, I hope you have a magic user. (Also, a bard carrying "Bardic horn of Valhalla," while not a necessity, will increase your chances of surviving this encounter.) Finally, I cheat a little: I allow myself to run each of my characters solo through the quest reward sequences; so, by the time I got to D.E. level 2, each member of my party was about a level above where they should have been if playing the game straight through. If you find yourself stuck, or just want that extra "Umph!" to make things slightly easier: Go back to your last save before you freed the prisoners at the end of D.E. 1 (you DO keep a running trail of frequent saves, don't you?) and run each party member solo though the reward sequence and export, or save to separate games. Regroup, then slash your way to Conlan's son on level 2 and repeat. Should get you an extra level on most of your party. The first time I did this battle, I had a full party of: Paladin, 4 Fighters and Thief/Illusionist. (The reason for so many fighters is that 3 of them were slated to dual over to other classes, but hadn't progressed far enough, yet.) Everyone was specializing, to the max extent possible, in bows (fighters were all bows+++). Everyone had regular arrows at the ready and acid or fire arrows available. Everyone was rested after the encounter in the cave at the top of the passage that leads down to the altar room, and game is SAVED at that point. Prefight: IIRC, with everyone else at the top of the passageway, I took Sashii, my thief/Illusionist, down the passageway until she got spied by a troll then she runs like a banshee back up the passageway. At the top, she gets through the hole left in the ranks of the fighters and then turns to.... Round 1: cast web in the passage, as far up as possible without "holding" own party. (Summon monster would be much more effective way of blocking the passage, if you've got it.) Meanwhile, the first thing to appear at the bottom of the passage is a troll; and he gets crucified with a rain of arrows. One fighter switches to acid/fire arrow to finish him off in the next round (important), while the rest wait (very important) for the first priest(ess) to show. Round 2: By this time, web is cast, which may slow down the trolls a little. A talonite (priestess or possibly priest) should show by now, and EVERYONE targets her. Sashii throws Aganazzar's scorcher at her, and if the troll from round 1 will take fire damage from this spell, then free up the fighter that would have finished up the troll and use him to also target the priestess: She needs to go down in this round, because getting held = death. (You should get a lot of collateral damage to trolls with A. Scorcher. Long narrow passages are what this spell is made for, so remember to "stock up" on these when you rest before this battle. Fireball would be great, too, but you may not have it, yet.) As soon as your round 2 combat actions are complete, retreat well back into the cave at top of the passage (out of sight of any casters who will certainly appear at the bottom of the passage.) Round 3: Hopefully this round starts with 1 dead troll (out of maybe 6 who joined the initial charge) 1 dead talonite (out of 4) and a bunch (maybe 4 or five) angry trolls, some hurting and some held. After the group retreats well back into the cave, Sashii moves to the side, and any seriously hurt fighter moves to the back, of the group. Time to switch to acid/fire arrows if the fighters haven't already. The entire group targets one or two of the most badly wounded trolls as they emerge from the passageway, and Sashii throws another web at the mouth of the passageway, or targets Scorcher or flaming oil on the troll in the best position to extract the most collateral damage possible (beware of friendly fire.) If a talonite pops out of the passage, everyone (or enough to ensure a kill) targets her or, if the situation won't allow that, runs. If enough trolls and priestesses get held, they will pop out one or two at a time, each one individually feeling the full wrath of the party. If things don't go this well, the party may need to fight a running engagement, possibly all the way back to the previous level (Level 1) and rest before re-engaging. Do NOT stand around within sight of talonite, unless s/he is alone (no other talonites) and things are going well enough that you can devote sufficient firepower to ensure a very quick kill. IIRC, things did not go well for me, in this respect, but the party recovered when Sashii managed to get off a few Scorchers that each fried about 4-5 trolls/talonites (I LOVE this spell!). With my second time through, 3 things were different: 1.) I had imported Sashii, who was, by now, a journeyman (level 8) thief/mage with Fireball and Summon Monsters I at her disposal; 2.) there were only three characters in the party, including only one fighter, Druulf; and 3.) I had Bree, a bard, for whom I had bought "Bardic Horn of Valhalla." After several reloads and changes of tactics, I got the following to work: Pre-fight: Sashii hides and gets down passage just far enough to see first troll on altar, Bree moves up behind. Bree summons berserkers slightly to the right and Sashii cast summon monters slightly to the left of the bottom of the passageway. Both high-tail it up to Druulf, who is standing in the passage, about halfway between the cave and the altar room. The enemy runs to engage the summoned berserkers and fire beetles. Round 1/2: Sashii cast web down passage, between the party and their summoned help. Druulf takes shot at anything that appears (especially talonites). Talonites, seeing fire beetles first, waste their holds on them: Excellent! Round 3: Sashii and Bree stand side by side at top of web area and both cut loose with a double-barreled Scorcher at talonites, also toasting any trolls trying to come up the passage. Just behind, Druulf also shoots at talonites. (Ain't that funny: the tank standing BEHIND the magic users!) Berserker attention seems to be evenly divided between trolls and talonites: could be worse. Round 4: Bree finds an opportunity to cast skull trap near talonites. Sashii casts another scorcher. Both magic users are careful not to harm berserkers. Round 5: Bree casts her last scorcher at the farthest troll she can target without harming a berserker, while Sashii casts her last summon monsters, to replace all the fire beetles that the trolls have pulverized, hoping to take heat off of the berserkers, so they can finish off talonites. Both magic users have taken troll hits, so move behind Druulf. Round 6: Druulf keeps aim on talonite, even though taking a pounding from troll. Bree casts magic missile on talonite. Sashii manuevers and then casts another Scorcher at a target down the passageway, so as to also nick the troll in front of Druulf. Last talonite (Yea!!) and berserker go down. Round 7/8/9: The rest is mop up: Bree casts magic missile on troll pounding on Druulf. Druulf starts paying attention to him, too. Sashii casts fireball down the passage at the trolls still engaged with fire beetles (placing so as not to hurt beetles), then switches to acid arrows / magic missile to help pick off the almost dead trolls. The party is over. Hope this helps. Party On! edited for spelling, clarity and content [ 10-13-2002, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]