quote:
Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
I can see that you are trying to take a middle path - we have to replace capitalism but not with socialism. That is a difficult path so I commend you for trying it, but I think that the only way forward can be socialism.
To answer your various questions, I don't think socialism requires a loss in individual liberty. If you can follow the logic you took to get to that statement I will be impressed as I don't think there is any. Unless you identify yourselves entirely by saying "I am poor" or "I am rich" then I don't think financial equality will make us any more or less individualistic. And if we do identify ourselves solely by that quality then surely it says more for capitalisms effect on us than our actual mental qualities (garbled, I know, it is a little difficult to explain what I mean there).
Second, I didn't say that there was a socialist society pre history. There is evidence of some societies operating on a simple commune basis like the Isreali kibbutzs. But what I really meant was that our lives have only recently (the last 500 yrs or so) started to be dominated by capital in such a manner. What I mean is that we mistook what we did for necessity a long time ago as our inherent character. And then we ended up making it the sole basis for our society. And now if you can provide an argument against an alternative way of life that doesn't rest on "Its against our nature" I will be impressed if it holds up. It being against what we think our nature is is the way in which we tell ourselves that it is all still alright... we don't need to panic about change... all the shit that has happened was unavoidable.
But yeah, in general I think human nature is not greed. The two have become interlinked, but that is what we have made ourselves, not the other way around.
Nothing at all wrong with Capitalism...capitalism is not a form of government, capitalism is a type of society...there will be a government controling the capitalistic society...all capitalism is a system that allows a person to succeed with a combination of intelligence and hard work.