Quote:
Originally posted by Skunk:
quote:
----B_part
You are particularly obsessed with what is written down in laws and constitution. I have seen countless violation of constitutional spirit in "true" (or at least old) democracies. I don't expect a fake democracy like the Palestinian Authority to respect its constitution.
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Coming from the home of political corruption, that statement really takes the biscuit...Just because Italy is famous for political corruption, it does not mean that every other country partakes in a similar cake contest.
I think that you've lived in Milan for too much and the resultant cynicsim of seeing your government permanently with its hands in someone elses pocket has permanently damaged your objectivity.
You have no grounds to support this claim in relation to the PA. [/QUOTE]
I hope you realize how stupid and racist your remark is. If you don't, well, I won't waste my time trying to show you.
However when I said old democracies I wasn't talking about Italy, which isn't an old democracy. I was talking about the US (remember Vietnam? remember how ole Lyndon Johnson merrily played around his congressional mandate?) or France - they had to tear down at least 4 republics because of "murky" procedures.
Also, I never mentioned corruption in relation to the PA. I simply stated that power and influence do not always reside where the constitution says they should be, especially when bloody wars are being fought or have been fought recently. I am basing my evaluation on historical events similar to that in question.
For instance, in 1946 the italian government was ad interim in the king's hands, before free elections could be held. Yet a sizable part of the country, mostly in the North and North East was
de facto under the influence of the communist partizans, whose prestige came from "liberating" Italy They obeyed Palmiro Togliatti, who in turn was very close to Stalin. In the end they let go, but Italy was on the edge of another civil war for a couple of years.
Another example: Greece, 1944 - 1945.
26th september 1944: right before the Nazis retired, the main figures of the resistance sign a treaty in Caserta where they agree to turn both partizan factions, ELAS (communist) and EDES (the others) into regular armed forces, to be comanded by the central government in the person of general Scobie. They agree also to disarm them after the war. Once the Germans retire, ELAS partizans ignore the disarming order and try to capture the capital and overturn the government they agreed to be commanded by. In the end British troops along with the EDES quell the revolt.
Afghanistan, 2003: Hamid Karzai is head of the government. warlords control the country outside Kabul.
These examples have in common one thing: an agreement clearly stating where power should be, and a situation which shows power doesn't reside there, but is held by those whose prestige comes from fighting, or at least claiming to have done, against the former enemy, be it Germany, the Talibans or, in Arafat's case, Israel
[ 09-14-2003, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: B_part ]