Quote:
Originally posted by Faceman:
quote:
Originally posted by B_part:
Imposed democracies can work. Take Italy, Germany and Japan. Among them Japan is the most stunning case: non western culture, militaristic, with the cult of a god-emperor. Yet now they are a democracy.
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Germany: had a democracy before 1933
Italy: was a parlamentaric kingdom (like the UK)
So democracy was REinstated there
Japan IMHO is a stunning case of it NOT working because it is de facto still a fascistic state though a democracy on the outside [/QUOTE]Italy was more or less democratic, alright. But Weimar Republic was as fragile as thin ice - Germans voted Hitler knowing he would change things towards a dictatorship - authority was felt as a need to counter economical and social problems. Anyway, in 1945, you could not expect the Germans to love the americans who had killed million of their fathers, sons and brothers - Allied forces were indeed occupying forces which imposed their form of government. Maybe something was already there, but Germans didn't decide on thei free will.
As to Japan, looking like a democracy is really all what it takes to be a democracy in facts: people vote, can express their opinions freely have clearly stated rights and so on. The subtle distinctions are best left to philosophers. In real world a fac-simile democracy is really enough. And alos, after years of feigning democracy, a country will become effectively democratic - young people tend to change things and rebel to traditions.
With all this, I am not trying to institute a comparison between Iraq and Japan or Germany. I am simply saying that things can indeed change despite the odds. Just you cannot expect them to change overnight and without a cost. What will happen in Iraq will depend on how much Iraqi people will benefit from democracy with regard to their life quality.