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Originally posted by Black Baron:
I do not porpose fighting islam, i purpose to fight fanatic islam. I do suggest throwing fanatic islam states (iran and saudia) into the dark age, while taking over their oil. It is much safer that way. The hell with morale. The hell with public opinion. When we have bombed iraqi nuclear reactor you have rebuked us. I wonder what would have been the result of the second gulf war, if this crazy maniac had an A bomb. Give Europe oil and it will shut up sooner or later, and rather sooner than later.
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Just for the record I supported the reactor bombing and have stated this on IW many times.
My point is that its not possible to fight fanatical Islam on this scale
without fighting Islam as a whole. Military action like this will turn every law abiding Muslim into a freedom fighter defending their faith - and they would be right in this case. I think your view of how it would turn out is unrealistic.
And "the hell with morale"? That's the language of the terrorist, the suicide bomber, the torturer and the dictator. Morality is what raises us above the beasts in this world - you can't simply switch it on and off when it suits. What you suggest is incompatable with the moral codes of every religion I can think of as well as those underlying secular democracy.
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If you wonder why i think so, i may only answer that i deduce it from your reaction to terror here, and to terror in europe. Here it is "Understandable despickable (sp?) act and in europe it is despickable non understandable act".
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Sorry, I didn't quite understand this bit. Do you mean my reaction to terror in Israel as compared to when it happens in Europe?
When I see terror in Israel, I condemn it because innocents are harmed. But I also have my eyes open enough to see that the current situation is unjust - it always has been. A monkey could have done a fairer job of dividing up the land in the first instance. The shift in foreign policy when Likud came to power, especially the whole 'Greater Israel' ideology stinks of expansionism and not defence, so in my opinion portraying Israel as the innocent victim is not the whole story. There have also been many many opportunities when Israel has deliberately obstructed peace, especially in the early years.
Of course, the surrounding Arab states are certainly not blameless and their conduct has often been absolutely deplorable and downright stupid at times. But when I look at the Arab-Israeli conflict in balance, after studying it in detail, I honestly think that both sides are as bad as each other. Nobody can claim the moral high ground here - its a nasty quagmire created by an initial injustice that is never going to be solved anytime soon. The only solution I can see is if Israel builds this wall on pre-67 borders and stays behind it. Having studied the current route of the wall it can only be seen as an effort to annex the few remaining pieces of fertile land. The systematic diversion of water supplies from palestinian areas and the dislocation caused by roadblocks has pretty much assured that the Palestinian economy will be non-functional for a good while yet.
As for terrorism in Europe, well the Madrid bombings spring to mind. That was explainable and understandable as well - both an effort to disrupt elections and also painful memories for Islamic extremists of the turning back of the Islamic empire. It's a natural target. What amazes me is that nobody has attacked Britain yet, I can't understand why we haven't got one over Iraq.
As for giving Europe oil to shut them up...perhaps listening to them might be an alternative solution?
Oh, and Morgeraut - a reply to your PM will be coming soon. I've been v busy at the moment, but have been looking through loads of those sites and spreading the word a bit too. MEMRI in particular is a great resource.
[ 02-24-2005, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]