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So that is where I'm coming from, Zyb. Huggies from the Cheetah unit, now prowling round and kicking cones moodily whilst lashing tail.....
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Lets hope it will not be me lashed by tail...
Or you want to lash me to yourself
Back to nuclear energy. Of course there were accidents and for sure there were more of them in military industry, not mentioning sunk submarines with nuclear weapon and reactors. But newer technologies are safer, errors allow to build better protections for future. Russians just took Kursk submarine from the see - there ware no radiation leaks. Next step in technology would be reactors based on thermonuclear fusion. They will be cleaner, will not produce wastes. But potentially could be more dangerous in case of explosion. Do you think that people who oppose nuclar plants now will allow for such thermonuclear ones? In Poland after Chernobyl people opposed nuclear plants and we do not have ones. They dont even want to listen arguments. Thats why we have a lot of coal mines and plants. We have enormous brown coal mines/excavations. They dig really deep hole (many tens of meters) where you could hide medium size city. All underground water goes there, so: 1st there is no water anywhere in radius of many kilometers, 2nd it goes polluted, 3rd they have to pump it out of hole.
Coal industry: because most winds in our part of Europe go from west to east we pollute Ukraine and are polluted by Czech and Germany. Some forest in mountains in south of Poland have been completely destroyed by acid rains. I have been in Izerskie mounains - there is no single tree older then about 10-15 years. There are forests of dead trees. Situation is better now then 10 years ago, we are planting new trees. But imagine: you go whole day along some ridge and you can see everything, everywhere: no alive tree is higher then you. You look right and next ridge is also empty. Most of dead trees has fallen because of wind but sometimes you pass area where they didnt fall - it is like in horror movie even if there is sun and the sky is clear. There are no big animals, only some birds returned. This was one of ecological catastrophes our south and western friend gave us. Mountains next to the Izerskie: Karkonosze. People estimate that about 50% of trees are dead there. In some places there are only dead trees. In other threes are still green but have been amaged so bady that will not have healty seeds. In 20-30 years 80% of trees will be dead there. And Czechs wants to build new power plant near border (and we will got all polution) in this area.
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As far as nuclear goes, a few words: Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, perfect targets for terrorists, generators of waste, accident prone, expensive.
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Terrorist attacks: I can imagine that dams would be perfect targets, chemical industry, oil industry (not mentioning tankers). They can poison water supply, use biological weapon. They dont need nuclear industry. Nuclear plants are not expensive, only waste utilization is expensive and only because they can not be completely utilized, are highly corrosive and have a lot of elements with very long time of falling. But they can be stored in old mines without water or even one could throw them into sun (not near future
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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:
Zyb, the human race is never going to learn anything by coercian. What do you want to do, impose the death penalty for having more than one or two children? Beat people on the soles of their feet for drinking too much cola? (Actually, this second one I could be in agreement with  )
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Coercian is very good. I lived in a county with coercian. Some suffer but generally I dont believe that people are ready for freedom. Look for Yugoslavia. 20 years ago and even 15 years ago it was a Paradise for me for us. They had more freedom then in any east-european country. They could travel, they had many articles we couldnt get, they didnt depend on Soviet Union. Why? They had Tito, he was oppressing them. He didnt allow for any ethinic or religious nosense. Tito died. Eastern regimes have fallen, western and muslim countries helped Croats and muslims and you know what was then, what is now. They have freedom. Serbs tried to make their freedom but had lost. Now Albanians try to make their freedom (with help of muslim countries and organization considered now (after 11th of September) as a terrorist ones.
Do you know that before fall over 6% of people there was saying they are Yugoslavians, not Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrans, Albanians, Hungarians, Macedonians or Slovenians. There were many mixed marriages. The best Albanian University was not in Albania but in Yugoslavia. What we have now? Freedom? Everyone could and in Kosovo still can kill other people.
Why not death penalty? I suppose you are against but I am not, I believe why the society has to pay, pay for prisons, for effects when we let crimnals free. I dont believe in modern judgement system.
In China drug dealers are shot, corruption on high scale is punished with ultimate penalty. People are not allowed to have more then one children. Even leaders of China (so-called) Communist Party dont know how many people they have: 1.3 billion or 1.6 billion (in country it is easier to bribe and have more children). They have to limit procreation. They know that they are responsible for China. They dont want to to wake up and have 2 or billions of people, mostly without work. They have to assure food for all Chinese.
Before fall of totalitarism in Poland we didnt have organized robbery, large corruption, gigantic economical crime, kidnappings, drugs. But there were repressions, coercian. Now we have freedom. Many people in Poland would be indignant with what I say, and I say that we should be grateful for Josef Stalin and communist regimes. They forced change of borders and more importantly they forced movement of people. Germans were moved by force to Germany and Ukrainians to Ukraine. Poles from Ukraine were moved to Poland.
I dont know if you know history of our part of Europe but there were big animosity between Polish people and Ukrainians. Our freud has long history. Between wars we had smaller part of todays Ukraine. We oppressed them, they fight agains us (like Israel and Palestinans). During second world war Germans supported Ukrainins and made massacrs of Polish people. Polish partisans murdered and burned Ukrainian villages, Ukrainians Polish villages. Ukrainian SS group was well known of special bestiality. We were mized together but were unable to solve our problems. After 50 years most old people died, most od Poles live in Poland, Ukrainians in Ukraine and we dont fight like in Balkans.
People do not want to understand, to learn, to share, to feel responsible. We think generally only about ourselves, about our needs. Some religious groups do not allow to learn about things they do not agree. We dont care much about future. The only way to save our future is a totalitarism. Total control of population growth, distribution of wealth, education.
Globalism is our only hope. Global totalitarism. Not global corporations moving wealth from countries to unknowns pockets.
You change yourself, you try. You cause that a few people in UK start to think about ecology. But in third countiers every day new people are born. They will grow in poverty and without education. Their countires will be not able to support them and will collaps. Their leader in mosque will tell them that western countries are devil. They will not ask you what do you think.
You may have no chance to reform them in a peaceful way.