How to Improve Improved Irenicus?-small spoilers i guess

[Xen]

I do not want to say any bad things VS Weimer but still...
Kudos goes to Weimer for such a great mods,but still...
He could give improved Irenicus much bigger spell selection and not always Magic Missle,Flame/Acid Arrow,Mordekainen`s Sword. Instead of that Johnn Boy stoles your heavy earned equipment. Afterall he is a Mage level 30/29!
What do you think?

[ 06-19-2003, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Xen ]

[Faceman]

a few horrid wiltings would give me the shivers
or a machinegun maze which traps the whole party excluding the PC for some rounds

[Xen]

Originally posted by Faceman: a few horrid wiltings would give me the shivers or a machinegun maze which traps the whole party excluding the PC for some rounds

ADHW?Protection from Magical Energy and belt Of Inertial Barrier
Maze?Spell Immunity:Conjuration,Summoning

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Xen: quote: Originally posted by Faceman: a few horrid wiltings would give me the shivers or a machinegun maze which traps the whole party excluding the PC for some rounds

ADHW?Protection from Magical Energy and belt Of Inertial Barrier
Maze?Spell Immunity:Conjuration,Summoning [/QUOTE]And IF you or someone in your party is not a mage ?
There are only two belts (with Tactics) available in the game.

But I agree that spells in the third fight are not very special. Probably because your defenses are low after two fights and you cannot rest. I'm sure Weimer had this fight tested and retested many times with all sorts of solo players and parties.

We can only thank him for the work he has done and if anyone doesn't like it, maybe he should try some modding stuff.

[Xen]

Leslie like I said:"Kudos goes to Weimer"...
He is probably the best MODder out there(and you to JCompton...) so if you were implying on someone like me,no way. Let the modders do their stuff and let the players play. I just wanted to say that he could have better spell selection but as you said:"Weimer probably tested it"...

[weimer]

I encourage feedback on Imp Irenicus.

Xen, what other spells would you recommend? One of the problems with using a large spell selection is that most of the spells are actually kinda pathetic at high levels. For example, Fireball's damage maxes out at 10d6. Not so hot for a 30th level mage. Similarly, he could use Carrion Summons ... but Mordy is clearly superior.

Faceman: Selfish's major spell list is:

Wilting, Sym:Stun, Symeath, FoD, Chain Lightning, Malison, Chaos, Emo:Hopeless, Slow, Magic Missile, AcidArrow, FlameArrow, ConeCold, Pro-MW.

The Shattered One adds:

Mordy, Shatter Magic, Imp Invis, Spell Turning, FS:Red, FS:Blue.

That actually includes all kinds of elemental damage (elec, acid, fire, cold) as well as a number of "disabling" effects (e.g., slow, chaos), some insta-death (FoD) and some nukes (Wilting). The only thing missing is Charm ... but everyone tends to have immunity to charm by that point.

In addition, you might view the You-Vs-Irenicus fight in Scene 2 as a "machine-gun maze". If there's already a bit where you have to face him alone, it's not clear that adding maze to the other bits really improves things.

Weimer did test it, but he didn't test it extensively himself -- I ran through it a few times with different parties. However, I have gotten quite a bit of feedback from the net, and most people seem to come to this conclusion: it initially appears quite difficult and daunting, but after a bit of practice it becomes do-able. There are some novel aspects (e.g., an emphasis on resource management) but it's not a pinnacle of creativity. There are a number of ways to win (e.g., ranged weapons don't trigger teleports, alternate mundane and magical weapons, turn into the slayer, win the mage duel, yada yada).

I encourage you not to think that it is finished or perfect just because Weimer put it out there -- if you have concrete suggestions for improvements, I look forward to hearing them.

[Xen]

Originally posted by weimer: I encourage feedback on Imp Irenicus. Xen, what other spells would you recommend? One of the problems with using a large spell selection is that most of the spells are actually kinda pathetic at high levels. For example, Fireball's damage maxes out at 10d6. Not so hot for a 30th level mage. Similarly, he could use Carrion Summons ... but Mordy is clearly superior. Faceman: Selfish's major spell list is: Wilting, Sym:Stun, Symeath, FoD, Chain Lightning, Malison, Chaos, Emo:Hopeless, Slow, Magic Missile, AcidArrow, FlameArrow, ConeCold, Pro-MW. The Shattered One adds: Mordy, Shatter Magic, Imp Invis, Spell Turning, FS:Red, FS:Blue. That actually includes all kinds of elemental damage (elec, acid, fire, cold) as well as a number of "disabling" effects (e.g., slow, chaos), some insta-death (FoD) and some nukes (Wilting). The only thing missing is Charm ... but everyone tends to have immunity to charm by that point. In addition, you might view the You-Vs-Irenicus fight in Scene 2 as a "machine-gun maze". If there's already a bit where you have to face him alone, it's not clear that adding maze to the other bits really improves things. Weimer did test it, but he didn't test it extensively himself -- I ran through it a few times with different parties. However, I have gotten quite a bit of feedback from the net, and most people seem to come to this conclusion: it initially appears quite difficult and daunting, but after a bit of practice it becomes do-able. There are some novel aspects (e.g., an emphasis on resource management) but it's not a pinnacle of creativity. There are a number of ways to win (e.g., ranged weapons don't trigger teleports, alternate mundane and magical weapons, turn into the slayer, win the mage duel, yada yada). I encourage you not to think that it is finished or perfect just because Weimer put it out there -- if you have concrete suggestions for improvements, I look forward to hearing them.

Well as a 30/29 level Mage he could have Planetar or some other HLA`s.-but this is ToB matter. Mordie`s and all the other stuff you implented are real nice. He could be something like improved Sendai.(You know on Insane)...


So:
3xADHW(S) in CC
Mordekainen`s Sword(s)
Planetars ?
Skull Traps
Imprisonment
Finger Of Death
Nishruu


He should be more powerful with magic instead of stealing your equipment. But still great job Wes! Keep up the good work! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
It is a real challenge to fight him.

[weimer]

I'm trying to shy away from giving him ToB abilities because there are players who use Imp Irenicus and don't have ToB. Yes, really.

Skull Trap does the same kind of damage as Wilting ... but less of it. In addition, enemies basically only cast spells at people, so he'd never really have the skull traps just floating around ... so it seems inferior to Wilting on all fronts.

FoD was "Finger of Death" -- he already has it.

I'm wary of Imprisonment because there's basically no defense against it -- imagine a party in which the only mage is Imprisoned first. Now no one can read the freedom scroll, and the rest of the party is basically doomed to be picked off one by one.

Nishruu is an interesting idea. But consider this -- they're basically only effective against other mages -- they drain your spells/charges. Most comments I've gotten lead me to believe that ImpIren is already tougher for Mages than for Fighters. The Mages tend to run out of spells early compared to Jon-Bon's unlimited selection -- since he can Pro-MW over and over again, you run out of breaches fast. Nishruus would only exaggerate this difference.

Hmm, what if Imp Irenicus could summon Imp Kitthix?

[Xen]

Yes that would be cool. I mean he is a monster.(Kithhix and Irenicus)...so i think it would be very ok...

Edit:tougher for Mages? OK we all know that Mages are not even near Sorcerers but if i took him out with a Sorcerer...but i used the Endless Spell Strategy

[ 06-20-2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Xen ]

[Jani]

Improved Kitthixx (spl?) would make no difference since you are going agains Mordenkainen swords too. As you know one death spell takes care of those. After casting you would not even remember fighting that little bug If you really want more nasty thingies running around in that fight throw in something like "Minor Avatar of Sekolah"-creatures. That is one fight that still forces me to use powerword reload. Or make improved K. immune to instant death effect. If you want to improve Jon´s magical arsenal make him cast lots of "area of effect spells" with different damages. Not so easy to have a party protected from Ice storm, Incendiary Cloud, Cloud Kill... effects at the same time.

Jani