CS Lewis was an anti-semite

Dirty Meg · 10-20-2004, 04:19 AM

The White Witch in CS Lewis's Narnia books represents Judaism.

>Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah. When the White Witch ruled Narnia, it was always winter but never Christmas - She doesn't acknowledge the coming of the messiah.

>She kills Aslan, who is then ressurected - Like Jesus. According to Christians, the Jews killed Jesus.

>In 'the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe', it is stared that the White Witch is decended from Lilith, not Eve. Lilith only appears in Jewish mythology. The implication is that the White Witches roots are Jewish, not Christian.

It is astonishing that these works of raving anti-semitism, comparable to Mein-Kampf, are marketed as childrens stories.

shamrock_uk · 10-20-2004, 05:00 AM

Without wishing to cause offence, I think you're letting a personal feeling of persecution cloud your enjoyment of a good book and drawing links where there are none.

To respond to your points:

1) There are countless religions/sects/atheists who didn't acknowledge the coming of the Messiah, not just the Jews.

2) It is a fairly uncontroversial point that the Jews killed Jesus. Stating what is most likely historical fact (putting aside questions about Jesus' divinty) is not anti-semitism. Of course Lewis does not even do this in his book.

3) Lilith appears in Islamic mythology, not just Jewish mythology.

Even if we do assume that he did have an anti-semitic agenda, I would hardly describe it as "raving" when the references are so veiled. Comparing it to Mein Kampf, which is just a crazy book, is quite a false comparison. Having read both, I really cannot see any kind of link.

EDIT:

CS Lewis also had a Jewish wife...

[ 10-20-2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

Dron_Cah · 10-20-2004, 02:07 PM

LOL!! The edit really got me, shammy!! (Btw, Imma call you shammy, now, cuz i like it!) [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

shamrock_uk · 10-20-2004, 04:33 PM

Did a couple of edits to clear up my wording as it was a bit clumsy.

Shammy is more than ok Dron, I positively detest this nickname - it is the one I chose for my first ever email account and I just plumped for it because I was in a rush when I signed up. If I'd known that I would be hanging round Ironworks for a long time I would've picked a more 'in character' one! My kingdom for a 'change nickname' button!

Dron_Cah · 10-20-2004, 06:20 PM

It's ok, Shammy.

As far as the edit, I was thinking of the, "he had a jewish wife" thing. A very anti-semitic thing to do!!

shamrock_uk · 10-20-2004, 06:37 PM

Oh, I know you meant that. The edit was for my earlier wording - I wasn't very happy with it and still aren't 100%. Sensitive issues require literary tip-toing [img]smile.gif[/img]

And actually, googling "CS Lewis anti-semitic" comes up with a surprising number of results. Just reading through them to see if anything substantive turns up...

EDIT: Nope, just google doing a poor job.

[ 10-20-2004, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

armageddon272 · 10-20-2004, 07:14 PM

hmm, in theory you could say that there were many references directly to Christianity, such as there being an evil and good powers, (aslan, and, uhh, whats the name of the bird). there is the REAL Narnia where everyone dies and goes to, this can be a reference to the coming of armageddon, when God destroys the world and all good christians go to heaven, while all bad people (animals who were abusing aslan's gifts to them) were sent to hell (becoming normal animals, stupid and slow. instead of smart talking animals). in any case, these are trifles that are, like shamrock said, getting in the way of the beauty of the books, like the wonderfully described scene in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader where they are meeting the end of the earth. i seriously almost cried while i was reading this. oh, and as a side fact, does anyone know that Aslan is turkish for lion (randomness is king)

10-20-2004, 04:19 AM	#1
Dirty Meg Baaz Draconian Join Date: May 21, 2004 Location: Here, or there abouts. Age: 80 Posts: 703	The White Witch in CS Lewis's Narnia books represents Judaism. >Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah. When the White Witch ruled Narnia, it was always winter but never Christmas - She doesn't acknowledge the coming of the messiah. >She kills Aslan, who is then ressurected - Like Jesus. According to Christians, the Jews killed Jesus. >In 'the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe', it is stared that the White Witch is decended from Lilith, not Eve. Lilith only appears in Jewish mythology. The implication is that the White Witches roots are Jewish, not Christian. It is astonishing that these works of raving anti-semitism, comparable to Mein-Kampf, are marketed as childrens stories. __________________ A stitch in time is worth two in the bush.

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10-20-2004, 05:00 AM	#2
shamrock_uk Dracolich Join Date: January 24, 2004 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 3,092	Without wishing to cause offence, I think you're letting a personal feeling of persecution cloud your enjoyment of a good book and drawing links where there are none. To respond to your points: 1) There are countless religions/sects/atheists who didn't acknowledge the coming of the Messiah, not just the Jews. 2) It is a fairly uncontroversial point that the Jews killed Jesus. Stating what is most likely historical fact (putting aside questions about Jesus' divinty) is not anti-semitism. Of course Lewis does not even do this in his book. 3) Lilith appears in Islamic mythology, not just Jewish mythology. Even if we do assume that he did have an anti-semitic agenda, I would hardly describe it as "raving" when the references are so veiled. Comparing it to Mein Kampf, which is just a crazy book, is quite a false comparison. Having read both, I really cannot see any kind of link. EDIT: CS Lewis also had a Jewish wife... [ 10-20-2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

10-20-2004, 02:07 PM	#3
Dron_Cah Horus - Egyptian Sky God Join Date: March 2, 2003 Location: Kentucky Age: 39 Posts: 2,637	LOL!! The edit really got me, shammy!! (Btw, Imma call you shammy, now, cuz i like it!) [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

10-20-2004, 04:33 PM	#4
shamrock_uk Dracolich Join Date: January 24, 2004 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 3,092	Did a couple of edits to clear up my wording as it was a bit clumsy. Shammy is more than ok Dron, I positively detest this nickname - it is the one I chose for my first ever email account and I just plumped for it because I was in a rush when I signed up. If I'd known that I would be hanging round Ironworks for a long time I would've picked a more 'in character' one! My kingdom for a 'change nickname' button!

10-20-2004, 06:20 PM	#5
Dron_Cah Horus - Egyptian Sky God Join Date: March 2, 2003 Location: Kentucky Age: 39 Posts: 2,637	It's ok, Shammy. As far as the edit, I was thinking of the, "he had a jewish wife" thing. A very anti-semitic thing to do!!

10-20-2004, 06:37 PM	#6
shamrock_uk Dracolich Join Date: January 24, 2004 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 3,092	Oh, I know you meant that. The edit was for my earlier wording - I wasn't very happy with it and still aren't 100%. Sensitive issues require literary tip-toing [img]smile.gif[/img] And actually, googling "CS Lewis anti-semitic" comes up with a surprising number of results. Just reading through them to see if anything substantive turns up... EDIT: Nope, just google doing a poor job. [ 10-20-2004, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

10-20-2004, 07:14 PM	#7
armageddon272 Symbol of Cyric Join Date: September 20, 2004 Location: Maine, feel sorry for me Age: 34 Posts: 1,163	hmm, in theory you could say that there were many references directly to Christianity, such as there being an evil and good powers, (aslan, and, uhh, whats the name of the bird). there is the REAL Narnia where everyone dies and goes to, this can be a reference to the coming of armageddon, when God destroys the world and all good christians go to heaven, while all bad people (animals who were abusing aslan's gifts to them) were sent to hell (becoming normal animals, stupid and slow. instead of smart talking animals). in any case, these are trifles that are, like shamrock said, getting in the way of the beauty of the books, like the wonderfully described scene in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader where they are meeting the end of the earth. i seriously almost cried while i was reading this. oh, and as a side fact, does anyone know that Aslan is turkish for lion (randomness is king)

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