Blair: Iraq war was test case

[skywalker]

Blair: Iraq war was test case
Monday, 5 January, 2004

Tony Blair has described the war in Iraq as a "test case" for the handling of countries which possess weapons of mass destruction (WMD).
He said if Britain had backed down from dealing with Iraq, it would have been unable to deal with other rogue states.

He said: "The conflict here was a conflict of enormous importance because Iraq was a test case."


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Whoa, I'd hate too think that all the soldiers and civilians that gave and lost their lives, were merely wasted for a "test".

I hate to say it, but if a "rogue nation" is suspected of having WMD like Iraq, they might want to get some quick to defend themselves in case they get "dealt" with. There are 2 ways to look at it. Either nations do not pursue WMD to avoid conflict and be safe or become armed to the teeth to protect themselves. Depending on the nature of their ruling governments, it appears very hard to tell which way they will turn. I can sense some form of military disaster in the near future, especially if the "good nation's" militaries get spread too thin and can not handle all that is expected of them.

Mark

[Timber Loftis]

He told UK troops there they fought for a "noble cause" toppling Saddam Hussein and normality was slowly returning.

"I believe as strongly as I ever have this is the security threat and if we don't deal with it we will rue the day we didn't," he said.

Iraq had a proven record, he said, of not just developing but using weapons of mass destruction and repressing its own people. "If we had backed away from that, we would never have been able to confront this threat in the other countries where it exists." He thanked British servicemen and women - "the new pioneers of soldiering" - for their part in winning last year's conflict, but told them they now had to "win the peace". The Daily Telegraph says Mr Blair told military commanders in Basra that the 10,000 British troops stationed in the country would not be scaled down until next year. He said several thousand UK troops would remain there until at least 2006, the paper says.

One of the few reasons I wish I were a limey is that I could vote for Blair. I think he's of Bush's ilk but without the foot in the mouth. Of course, the other reason I wish I were a limey -- this great little chick I met over there -- would of course take precedence.

[Skunk]

I really don't understand what Blair meant by "the new pioneers of soldiering". Hasn't he forgotten Britain's long (and inglorious) colonial past? Resuming an old practice and calling it 'new' is hardly an intelligent start to the new year...

As much as I hate them, the conservatives will get my vote come election time...

Skunk? is this flame bait? Considering how no "reasonable" person can claim that either the UK, the US, or the UN for that matter are embarked on any kind of colonialism.

Edit: You could however make a good case for hegemonism..

[ 01-05-2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Timber Loftis]

It's a play on the word "pioneer" as some sort of gaf.

[Zero Alpha]

i always said id be dead by massive disaster before i was 30. looks like World War 3 is going to proove me right.

was it einstien who said 'i dont know what WW3 will be fought with, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones' ? this statement is too right

[Skunk]

Originally posted by MagiK: Skunk? is this flame bait? Considering how no "reasonable" person can claim that either the UK, the US, or the UN for that matter are embarked on any kind of colonialism. Edit: You could however make a good case for hegemonism..

Baiting? No, not at all.
As a Brit who was brought up on a diet of Great Britain's Glorious and wonderful past (ever heard the lyrics of Rule Britannia?), I think that I am more than qualified to put Britain's part into perspective. Just a few kilometres away from where the British are stationed is an 80 year old cemetary where British soldiers are buried after dying in an uprising against the (then) colonial administration. Some things don't change with the passage of time - and history seems to repeat itself - check out the text below.

What is different about the reasons for launching an empire? Overthrowing tyrants and freeing the people from their wealth? That's as old as the hills...

Rule Britannia
When Britain first at Heav'n's command, Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land, And guardian angels sang this strain;

CHORUS:
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves; Britons never shall be slaves.

Rule Britannia
The nations not so blest as thee, Shall in their turns to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free, The dread and envy of them all.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves; Britons never shall be slaves.

Still mor majestic shalt thou rise, More dreadful from each foreign stroke;
As the loud blast that tears the skies, Serves but to root thy native oak.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves; Britons never shall be slaves.

Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame, All their attempts to bend thee down;
Will but arouse thy generous flame, But work their woe, and thy renown.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves; Britons never shall be slaves.

To thee belongs the rural reign, They cities shall with commerce shine;
All thine shall be the subject main, And every shore it circles thine.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves; Britons never shall be slaves.

The Muses, still with freedom found, Shall to thy happy coast repair;
Blest Isle! With matchless beauty crowned, And manly hearts to guide the fair.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves; Britons never shall be slaves.
Thomas Augustine Arne, 1740


Britain's history for the following 160 years after the publication of this song speaks for itself. Oh! and I shouldn't forget the following lyrics from our national anthem, God Save the King

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
Thomas Augustine Arne, 1745

[ 01-06-2004, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

aw, c'mon skunk. crushing scots is more a pasttime than empire building. it's like blaming canada in america and bashing kiwi's down under.

[johnny]

Pffft... the Scots send them home again, what's your point ?

And doesn't everyone have a similar type of song or national anthem ? I mean, ever listened closely to "Deutschland uber alles" ? What's the big deal, they're just songs. And not even good ones too. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Skunk]

Originally posted by johnny: Pffft... the Scots send them home again, what's your point ? And doesn't everyone have a similar type of song or national anthem ? I mean, ever listened closely to "Deutschland uber alles" ? What's the big deal, they're just songs. And not even good ones too. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

I've lived in the Netherlands now for seven years (and I think that I've paid for the mirror that I broke when I first arrived ). Yet despite this, I am still learning new things about the culture at every corner - so I forgive you for not knowing the significance that such songs play in English culture.

Since you probably can recieve the BBC on TV, have you ever watched the Last night of the Proms? It's a big annual get together where a bunch of folk get up and sing patriotic songs - such songs have far more significance to the English than wearing orange on Queens day does for the Dutch, or wearing Green on St. Patrick's night for Irish.


Songs and poetry play *very* deeply in the psyche of the English, even more than their own flag. There are few english folk who are not moved by such songs like the national anthem, Jerusalem etc. or by Shakespeare's lines in Henry V This day is call'd the feast of Crispian...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, the most English of English patriotic poetry.

Thomas Augustine Arne is perhaps the most famous of English songwriters - his patriotic lyrics started and gave enthusiams to the idea that the English were superior to all other nations and that it was the duty of England to be as a father to all others. This in turn helped (and reinforced) public approval for a colonial policy that was to last two hundred years.

So much so that the Queen mother remarked just a few years ago:
"Poor darlings, the Africans just don't know how to govern themselves ... What a pity we're not still looking after them".

The symbols of patriotism often seem strange and ridiculous to outsiders. Planting the national flag in classrooms seems over-done to Brits, but not to Americans. That the Dutch flag plays second fiddle to the colour orange seems odd to us too - but it is significant nonetheless. Not doubt, The Last Night of the Proms is laughable to the Dutch (Certainly my Dutch in-laws can't understand the behaviour).

And in the private schools where Blair was educated, these patriotic symbols are not just merely on display - they are part of the maintenance of those symbols for the country and continue to propagate both the idea that Britain is still 'Great' and other laughable notions that Britain's power in some way rivals that of the US...

The songs matter - if you are english. They are not just songs, they carry a lot of emotional baggage.

Someone has to tell Blair that Britain is not the US's rival and never will be able to match its strength again. We are not a super-power and we do not even have influence in Europe, never mind on the world stage. And no, attempting to rebuild the colonial empire is NOT in our interests.


[ 01-09-2004, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]