Any other Alternate Reality fans out there?

[Tarjan]

Since I can see my Bard's Tale thread might go OT, I'll raise this question here-- Was anyone else here a fan of "Alternate Reality: The City" or "The Dungeon"? Frankly, I thought they were among the most advanced RPGs back in the 80s, and many of the gameplay ideas they introduced were later called revolutionary when Daggerfall copied them. In AR, you could join guilds if your morality matched that of the guilds. You could form alliances with one group and make enemies with another, and you could get diseases like lycanthropy (turning into a werewolf... and your stats would reflect this.) Also, like a lot of more modern RPGs, it successfully combined futuristic stuff (spaceships, robot guardians) with fantasy stuff (dragons, etc.) The series was supposed to have 7 episodes (The City, The Dungeon, The Arena, The Palace, The Wilderness, Destiny, and Revelation.) Sadly, only the first two episodes ever got made before the company went bankrupt.

So if any of you were/are fans of AR, what are your favorite memories of it? For me, it'll always be those sing-along songs by Gary Gilbertson.

When some are lost
Can't find their way
A number of them stray
To where you've come today

Then there are those
that this is for
And those that are no more
We've peace
and yet there's war

[Nightowl2]

AR was never my favorite series. The first game on the Apple was a total bore; there was nothing to do except fight and map out the city. Literally, that's all you could do. Dungeon added some more to the game with quests, but they were not always well-implemented. More than once I stumbled on one long before getting it.

I don't recall the lycanthropy part. The only game I remember that from is Daggerfall, where you could end up as a werewolf or vampire but continue playing.

I also considered the "no save" extremely obnoxious.

Nightwol2

[Tarjan]

Originally posted by Nightowl2: I don't recall the lycanthropy part. The only game I remember that from is Daggerfall, where you could end up as a werewolf or vampire but continue playing. I also considered the "no save" extremely obnoxious. Nightwol2

You could get lycanthrope in the dungeon, and your strength would get very high, but your intelligence would plummet. You'd need to seek out a priest to heal yourself (but you could have fun pounding the enemies for a while first.) Also, your morality became "dark as pitch."

What do you mean "no save"?? You could save anywhere in AR, unlike a lot of other games at that time in which you were required to go to an Inn or a Guild. The only time you couldn't save was if you created a "Temporary Character" (never saw the point in that, myself.)

I'll admit that The City was dull after a while, but the dungeon had a lot of depth (no pun intended.) I think The City and Dungeon should have been sold as one game, since The City wasn't really a full game in and of itself.

[Nightowl2]

You could save any time, but you only had one save. And when you booted up the game next time, that save was erased. So it was basically a "save and exit" in the fashion of Diablo2, except in D2 the save stays around.

What we forget about all the old games is the many frustrations they had, being they were new to designers as well as players. You mentioned needing to visit a special place to save; that was one thing I hated in Bard's Tale and others. Same for the terribly unbalanced combat in Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Might & Magic, etc. Those first ones were sometimes agonizing, and it wasn't until around level 7 or higher that things evened out. I did a lot of "scream and restore" back then.

And no, I still don't remember Lycanthropy

Nightowl2

[Tarjan]

Originally posted by Nightowl2: You could save any time, but you only had one save. And when you booted up the game next time, that save was erased. So it was basically a "save and exit" in the fashion of Diablo2, except in D2 the save stays around. Nightowl2

That was in The City, and yes, I'll freely admit it was annoying. I remember I would always copy my character disk before playing. The Dungeon was more forgiving about such things (as I recall, you would lose one point from a random stat if you needed to restart... not too bad.)

But as you said, ALL of those early games had annoyances. I hated having to return to the guild in BT1 and 2 (BT3 was a godsend with its "save anywhere" feature!) And the same problem existed in Might & Magic and Wizardry, and that restriction, to me, was worse than the AR restriction. Also, remember going through heaps of graph paper to map it all? No automap back then, and the mazes were a LOT tougher than they are these days. Some (most) of the maps in the BT series were downright evil!

But I'm comparing AR to other games at that time. Obviously it wouldn't stand a chance in today's market without some serious improvements, but neither would any other RPG of the 80s. However, the game had FAR more character depth than most other games at its time. In BT, Wizardry and Might & Magic everyone you met was an enemy, and your actions counted for nothing other than gaining experience points. In AR (especially in The Dungeon), encounters would differ depening on how you acted, and yet, you could win the game as evil character or a good one. I know that's nothing special these days, but back then it was revolutionary. In fact, according to the original plan, the overall goal of the series was up to the player-- either return to Earth (good characters), or seek revenge on your captors (evil characters.)

I guess one of the main things I liked about AR was the number of "hidden stats." You knew the game was constantly monitoring things you did. How much you tipped the bartender, whether you iniated fights, how aggressively you negotiated in stores, what sort of diseases you had contracted, what alliances you had formed, what enemies you had made, etc, etc. It just made the game feel more "alive" to me than any other RPG back then. I remember I had joined the Guild of Light (for morally good characters), but after an encounter with a werewolf, I was no longer allowed in. Turns out, I had gotten lycanthrope. So I sought out a priest at the chapel, and he told me that my soul had become "Dark as pitch". He offered to redeem me (I had to give up my possessions), and I was then allowed in the guild again. For a game that came out in the mid 80s, that's pretty involved! When Daggerfall copied these ideas in 1996, everyone thought it was so revolutionary.

Oh well, I guess I'm the only one who really appreciated the AR series. That would explain why parts 3-7 never got made