Look What's Under the Burkha

Timber Loftis · 10-31-2003, 11:41 AM

http://www.aopnews.com/lotw/missafg.pdf

'Naked' Miss Afghanistan slammed
October 27, 2003

PRESIDENT Hamid Karzai's minister for women's affairs yesterday condemned Miss Afghanistan, as Vida Samadzai became the country's first woman in the post-Taliban era to appear in a bikini during a beauty contest in Manila.

"Appearing naked before a camera or television is not women's freedom but in my opinion is to entertain men," Minister Habiba Surabi said.

"We condemn Vida Samadzai, she is not representing Afghanistan's women, and this is not women's freedom."

Surabi said according to Afghan culture women should not demonstrate their worth using their "beauty or bodies" but by their skills and knowledge.

"In the name of women's freedom, what this Afghan girl has done is not freedom but is lascivious," the minister said.

The 25-year-old Afghan contestant, who lives in the United States, is the first Afghan woman in 30 years to participate in the Miss World international beauty contest being held in the Philippines capital this week.

The dark-haired, black-eyed Samadzai, apparently from a Pashtun tribe, was born and raised in Afghanistan but left for the United States in 1996 to escape the extremist Taliban regime which forced women to cover themselves from head to toe.

Under the harsh regime women were not allowed to work outside their homes or go out without a close relative beside them. After the fall of the militia in 2001, an increasing number of women left the burqa, or veil, at home and some took jobs.

The only other Miss Afghanistan was Zohra Daoud, who joined the Miss Universe contest in 1972.

Agence France-Presse

Source.

[ 10-31-2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Sir Kenyth · 10-31-2003, 12:05 PM

Yowza! [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

Rokenn · 10-31-2003, 12:39 PM

yummy

Skunk · 10-31-2003, 12:57 PM

First of all, who appointed Samadzai as Miss Afghanistan anyway? I don't remember any beauty contests being held in Afghanistan to decide the title.

But more importantly, allowing her entry is probably the most provocative thing that could have been done. Beauty pagents in europe are generally frowned upon - so imagine the horror with which it is being viewed in a conservative culture like Afghanistan?

Just what President Karzai needs - evidence that adopting western values will lead to the degrading of women and values...

johnny · 10-31-2003, 02:17 PM

If Mr. Karzai has that much difficulties accepting Afghan women to participate in western entertainment (cause that's what it is, no more, no less), then maybe he should stop accepting western donations as well.

Timber Loftis · 10-31-2003, 04:01 PM

I'd like to point out that beauty pageants are not demeaning. There is nothing wrong with celebrating beauty -- we do it all the time.

As to how she became "Ms. Afghanistan" I have yet to find out. She has lived in the USA since 1996.

WillowIX · 11-01-2003, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
I'd like to point out that beauty pageants are not demeaning. There is nothing wrong with celebrating beauty -- we do it all the time.

That's YOUR opinion, nothing more.

And I doubt any man finds it demeaning, muslims the exception. Women on the other hand might feel a tad different about it.

Anywho, I think this competition is totally ridiculous. Ok I don't like the use of burkhas, but there are cultural differences here, and that includes men.

Quote:

We condemn Vida Samadzai, she is not representing Afghanistan's women, and this is not women's freedom

Well said and all too true!

Skunk · 11-01-2003, 07:07 AM

In fact, she has probably hindered women's freedom in Afghanistan. Families will now think very hard about sending their daughters to educational establishments or allowing them to have some semblance of freedom:
"Will it lead to a beauty pagent and the humiliation of the family?" will be the question that every family asks itself. And the answer?
Possibly. So we'd better err on the side of caution and forbid it.

If you want a *real* role-model for Afghan women, then you need look no further than to the likes of Khatool Mohammadzai. Now there is someone who can show the establishment that women can make a positive contribution to society without offending local morals.

Timber Loftis · 11-03-2003, 12:02 PM

I don't see why both women aren't role models. Or are we to condemn anyone who ever made any sort of living or name for themself off of their looks? Is it inherently less worthwhile to be a model than to be another profession?

And, do bathing suits really demean women? I know a lot of women who wear skimpy clothes and are proud of their bodies -- and also congnizant of the fact it's more demeaning to men (who seem to lose several IQ points when confronted with scantily-clad beautiful women).

Wait, let me just shut up and jump on the bandwagon. While I'm at it, let me go tell Boris Valejo and Larry Elmore they got it wrong all along, and that our fantasy women icons are supposed to be fully dressed and fat.

Spelca · 11-03-2003, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
I don't see why both women aren't role models. Or are we to condemn anyone who ever made any sort of living or name for themself off of their looks? Is it inherently less worthwhile to be a model than to be another profession?

And, do bathing suits really demean women? I know a lot of women who wear skimpy clothes and are proud of their bodies -- and also congnizant of the fact it's more demeaning to men (who seem to lose several IQ points when confronted with scantily-clad beautiful women).

Wait, let me just shut up and jump on the bandwagon. While I'm at it, let me go tell Boris Valejo and Larry Elmore they got it wrong all along, and that our fantasy women icons are supposed to be fully dressed and fat.

I think some people find it demeaning because women are being judged "like cattle". That's not necessarily my opinion though. I really respect women that have the courage to do that, and to take criticism about their bodies like that. I know what my classmate went through when she was trying to become a model... The people at the modelling agencies tell you in your face what's wrong with you (big nose, big teeth, you're too fat, etc.) and I know I couldn't handle that without crying. [img]tongue.gif[/img] So I have a lot of respect for those women that do make it (though I realise it isn't too healthy for some of them, like my classmate

). But I say that if it makes them happy, then they should go for it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-03-2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Spelca ]

10-31-2003, 11:41 AM	#1
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	http://www.aopnews.com/lotw/missafg.pdf 'Naked' Miss Afghanistan slammed October 27, 2003 PRESIDENT Hamid Karzai's minister for women's affairs yesterday condemned Miss Afghanistan, as Vida Samadzai became the country's first woman in the post-Taliban era to appear in a bikini during a beauty contest in Manila. "Appearing naked before a camera or television is not women's freedom but in my opinion is to entertain men," Minister Habiba Surabi said. "We condemn Vida Samadzai, she is not representing Afghanistan's women, and this is not women's freedom." Surabi said according to Afghan culture women should not demonstrate their worth using their "beauty or bodies" but by their skills and knowledge. "In the name of women's freedom, what this Afghan girl has done is not freedom but is lascivious," the minister said. The 25-year-old Afghan contestant, who lives in the United States, is the first Afghan woman in 30 years to participate in the Miss World international beauty contest being held in the Philippines capital this week. The dark-haired, black-eyed Samadzai, apparently from a Pashtun tribe, was born and raised in Afghanistan but left for the United States in 1996 to escape the extremist Taliban regime which forced women to cover themselves from head to toe. Under the harsh regime women were not allowed to work outside their homes or go out without a close relative beside them. After the fall of the militia in 2001, an increasing number of women left the burqa, or veil, at home and some took jobs. The only other Miss Afghanistan was Zohra Daoud, who joined the Miss Universe contest in 1972. Agence France-Presse Source. [ 10-31-2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ] __________________

10-31-2003, 12:05 PM	#2
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,785	Yowza! [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

10-31-2003, 12:39 PM	#3
Rokenn Galvatron Join Date: January 22, 2002 Location: california wine country Age: 61 Posts: 2,193	yummy __________________ “This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000)

10-31-2003, 02:17 PM	#5
johnny 40th Level Warrior Join Date: April 15, 2002 Location: Utrecht The Netherlands Age: 59 Posts: 16,981	If Mr. Karzai has that much difficulties accepting Afghan women to participate in western entertainment (cause that's what it is, no more, no less), then maybe he should stop accepting western donations as well. __________________

10-31-2003, 04:01 PM	#6
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	I'd like to point out that beauty pageants are not demeaning. There is nothing wrong with celebrating beauty -- we do it all the time. As to how she became "Ms. Afghanistan" I have yet to find out. She has lived in the USA since 1996. __________________

10-31-2003, 12:57 PM	#4
Skunk Banned User Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 63 Posts: 1,463	First of all, who appointed Samadzai as Miss Afghanistan anyway? I don't remember any beauty contests being held in Afghanistan to decide the title. But more importantly, allowing her entry is probably the most provocative thing that could have been done. Beauty pagents in europe are generally frowned upon - so imagine the horror with which it is being viewed in a conservative culture like Afghanistan? Just what President Karzai needs - evidence that adopting western values will lead to the degrading of women and values...

11-01-2003, 07:07 AM	#8
Skunk Banned User Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 63 Posts: 1,463	In fact, she has probably hindered women's freedom in Afghanistan. Families will now think very hard about sending their daughters to educational establishments or allowing them to have some semblance of freedom: "Will it lead to a beauty pagent and the humiliation of the family?" will be the question that every family asks itself. And the answer? Possibly. So we'd better err on the side of caution and forbid it. If you want a real role-model for Afghan women, then you need look no further than to the likes of Khatool Mohammadzai. Now there is someone who can show the establishment that women can make a positive contribution to society without offending local morals.

11-03-2003, 12:02 PM	#9
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	I don't see why both women aren't role models. Or are we to condemn anyone who ever made any sort of living or name for themself off of their looks? Is it inherently less worthwhile to be a model than to be another profession? And, do bathing suits really demean women? I know a lot of women who wear skimpy clothes and are proud of their bodies -- and also congnizant of the fact it's more demeaning to men (who seem to lose several IQ points when confronted with scantily-clad beautiful women). Wait, let me just shut up and jump on the bandwagon. While I'm at it, let me go tell Boris Valejo and Larry Elmore they got it wrong all along, and that our fantasy women icons are supposed to be fully dressed and fat. __________________

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