How necessary are Thieves? *spoilers*

[solace in fire]

Ive been facing a dilemma recently. Im a chronic restarter (I've pretty much played every class/kit and multiclass in the game for 2 chapters), and one thing kinda annoys me. Well, traps and locks are all OVER the place in the game, so it is necessary to have a thief. I have heard that in the later parts of the game, a MINIMUM of 120 find traps/open locks is needed. So this leaves me with 3 choices when assembling a party:

1) Make my main character a Thief with a good amount of skillpoints (a straight Thief, a Swashbuckler, or a Dual-class/Multi-class, since Assassins and Bounty Hunters don't really do the trick with skillpoints)


2) Pick up Jan Jansen


3) Pick up Yoshimo (which I very rarely do, since he ...
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betrays you.


I didn't include Nalia or Imoen because they only gain levels in their spellcasting classes.

Is there any way to get around this? Is it possible to equip nalia/imoen with enough magical equipment to improve their open locks/ find traps to a point where it doesnt matter if they gain Thief levels anymore?

Pretty soon I'm going to actually try to go through Chapter 3 with a character and complete the game with Throne of Bhaal, so I need to know...

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Imoen is enough of a thief for any party. There are several Rings, Gloves, Potions, Armors, and spells that exist to ensure that Immy's all the thief you'll ever need, and so much more.

[SixOfSpades]

It is, in fact, technically possible to run through the entire game without a Thief, otherwise it would be impossible to solo any other type of character. But it's a genuine pain in the patootie to do so, and only experienced gamers, who have memorized the location of every single Trap in the game, would attempt it.

I have never said that a Thief is an absolure necessity. I have, however, (frequently) said that no strong party should be without one.

Your options:
1) Nalia. Hardly creditable as a Thief on her own (for one thing, her Find Traps score is just enough to make you think you're safe, and then of course you step right on a Trap), the only way you can truly get by with Nalia is to give her a load of Thief equipment, which of course impinges on her effectiveness as a Mage.
2) Imoen. Believe it or not, Imoen has the skills to be all the Thief you'll ever need. Note that I said need, not want. She'll never be a kickass Backstabbing fool, she'll never lay scores of Traps for your enemies to stumble into, she'll never be able to pierce Improved Invisiblity without casting a spell, and the only way you can make a good Stealth scout out of her is to load her down with a bunch of equipment. But she does have nearly 100% in the two skills that every party most needs: Detect Traps and Open Locks. If the Traps aren't gonna nail you, and 95% of doors and chests will open for you, you're home free.
3) Jan. The fact that he's Multiclassed, and therefore gains Thieving points more slowly than a pure Thief, is of no consequence when you consider that his starting equipment boosts his skills to the point where you (practically) no longer even have to worry about how to get Jan's skills up to 100%--you only have to worry about which item to wean Jan off of next. His combat skills aren't much behind a regular Thief's, and his Mage spells of course add quite the punch.
4) Yoshimo. I don't care for the Bounty Hunter myself, since they're lacking combat-wise compared to the Assassin and Swashbuckler, and of course combat is pretty much what the game's all about. Some players, though, love them, perhaps due to the cheesy abuse that their Special Snares can be used during a fight, by "throwing" them from outside the enemy's sight range. And, of course, there's Yoshimo's Chapter 4 activities to be considered. Personally, I either carry him along if I'm in a hurry to get to Imoen, otherwise I immediately drop him for Jan.
5) PC Thief. A very popular choice, particularly interesting when it comes to such Duals as Assassin->Mage, Swashbuckler->Mage, and Swashbuckler->Fighter. (And, of course, Kensai->Thief and Wizard Slayer->Thief.) You must be wary, though, about Dualing: If you stay a Thief long enough to get 100% in more than four skills, it's going to take a long time to get your Thief half back, and that means a long time struggling with Locks and Traps. Multiclassed Thieves, of course, don't have this problem.

My observations:
100% in any skill is enough. You might want to go as high as 125% in the Stealth skills, however, since such factors as bright light act as negative modifiers to your score. And you should never Pickpocket with a score less than 240% anyway.
Half of a Thief is enough Thief. Heck, even a quarter of a Thief is enough, in Imoen's case.

[Armen]

on 'making my main character a thief' have a think about what you want your main character to be and whether you're taking a group along

i always play in a stealthy thiefy way so a solid thief is usually a necessity for me but all you really need is someone to deal with traps as locks can be bashed or magic-ed open and the other thief ability are playing-style dependent

if all you want is a fighter, mage or cleric you can start as a thief, put all your points in traps, dual as soon as the game starts when you've still got imoen and you'll hardly be without this vital skill (swashbuckler is the best choice imo as your stealth is never going to be good enough for worthwhile backstabbing and the ability to pu ** in weapons helps cleric and mage)

if you want to be a paladin of course it's a bit trickier [img]smile.gif[/img]

my $0.02 as they say

[Cerek]

There are also many Mods available that add to the basic BG game. One of them - Ease of Use - has several components that can be installed seperately. One of these components actually removes ALL traps and locks in the game. It takes a lot of fun out of the game, but it also eliminates ANY necessity for a thief character - unless you just want one in the party.

I have the traps/locks turned OFF right now because I am trying my hand at playing solo characters for the first time. But once I've gotten a little more experienced - I definitely plan to turn this feature back ON.

You can UN-install and RE-install any of the components at ANY point during a game also, which is very handy.

[Magness]

Jan starts off very solid regarding finding and disabling traps and opening locks. And if this is the most important part of thieving to you, Jan's more than enough. Also note that Jan's not really much of a melee type of thief. In battle, his mage talents are much better than his thieving talents.

Imeon is barely enough of a thief to get the job done.

If you want to be a more well-rounded thief, going for a PC thief is the way to go.

[Magness]

Something else to consider is that all those traps (and locks, IIRC) are free XP to be had when you disable the traps and open the locks.

[Faceman]

You do not necessarily need a thief even without cheese (i.e. knowing trap locations beforehand).
The two essential skills can be substituted by a divine spell (detect trap) and an arcane spell (knock). However this IS a pain in the rear end as Six correctly points out since you have to waste some spell slots on them and rest every time they're used up.
Without "Knock" you can still Bash most (if not all) game critical doors and chests by drinking giant strenght potions or wearing strenghth improving equipment.
Also there are only a few traps that will insta-kill you (regardless of current HP) and you could always have a summon scout ahead.

[Rockstar]

Originally posted by Cerek: There are also many Mods available that add to the basic BG game. One of them - Ease of Use - has several components that can be installed seperately. One of these components actually removes ALL traps and locks in the game. It takes a lot of fun out of the game, but it also eliminates ANY necessity for a thief character - unless you just want one in the party. I have the traps/locks turned OFF right now because I am trying my hand at playing solo characters for the first time. But once I've gotten a little more experienced - I definitely plan to turn this feature back ON. You can UN-install and RE-install any of the components at ANY point during a game also, which is very handy.

Umm ok ... lets just take out on of the major areas of the game... actually making thieves useless... hey i know. Why not install a mod that would get rid of all the enemies? that would make it even easier. *said sarcastically* lol

[Sir Degrader]

The reason Cerek said he was doing this was so that he could get a feel for the game as a solo character. Soloing is a difficult feat in itself, traps are merely an annoyance that would likely cause him to tear out his hair and focus on avoiding them rather then enjoying the challenge of killing the sewer gang with one guy.