"Religion stops a thinking mind...it is only another socially acceptable addiction."

[Chewbacca]

Am I the only one to see the irony here?

Whatever, either you get it or you don't.

What I wonder is why this issue wasn't taken up via PM. Obviously it is a personal issue between the original poster and the member with the alleged offensive sig quote. Why it had to be turned into a public debate, I don't know.

Now that's just ridiculous. Maelakin IMO was not directing it at a particular religion or institution. If I was him, I'd keep it there.

hear, hear. gforce.

a great american once said "i may not agree with a word you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it."

what happened to tolerance?

[Chewbacca]

A look at what some notable people through out history have said about religion, God, and faith.


Source

Religion is all bunk. -- Thomas Edison I don't believe in God, because I don't believe in Mother Goose. -- Clarence Darrow It is best to read the weather forecast before praying for rain. -- Mark Twain Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. -- Ambroise Bierce Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, He must approve the homage of Reason rather than that of blindfolded Fear. -- Thomas Jefferson I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of [hu]mankind has preserved - the Cross. Consider what calamaties that engine of grief has produced! -- John Adams Finding that no religion is based on facts and cannot therefore be true, I began to reflect what must be the condition of [hu]mankind trained from infancy to believe in error. -- Robert Owen Why has a religious turn of mind always a tendency to narrow and harden the heart? -- Robert Burns It's an incredible con job when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations with all their reward systems don't try to make it posthumous. -- Gloria Steinem I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive. I am not young, and I love life. But I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is none the less true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting. -- Bertrand Russell It's interesting to speculate how it developed that in two of the most anti-feminist institutions, the church and the law court, the men are wearing the dresses. -- Flo Kennedy I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it. -- Albert Einstein Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system. -- Thomas Paine During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. -- James Madison When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one. -- Benjamin Franklin Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and the state forever separated. -- Ulysses S. Grant Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. -- Thomas Paine It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -- Thomas Jefferson I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. -- Albert Einstein If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale, I would believe it. -- William Jennings Bryan It is a farce to call any being virtuous whose virtues do not result from the exercise of its own reason. -- Mary Wollstonecraft Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give. -- Robert Ingersoll The time appears to me to have come when it is the duty of all to make their dissent from religion known. -- John Stuart Mill

[Azred]

Originally posted by sultan: a great american once said "i may not agree with a word you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it."

[img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] That saying is normally attributed to Voltaire, who was French.

I am not going to comment whether or not Yorick should not have been offended, for it is not my place to make such a decision. Neither will I comment whether or not the sig should have been removed, because that is not my decision to make.
That being said, I do agree that that particular quote is short-sighted. Religion does not stop a thinking mind. In fact, theology is a serious academic subject; one may spend an entire lifetime studying even only one religion and never learn all there is to learn about it. At its core, religion is designed to answer one question: why are we here?
I have studied religion, even though I may not live it like Yorick does; I strongly disagree with the conclusion that my mind has somehow "stopped". [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[ 10-24-2003, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: Azred ]

Originally posted by Azred: That saying is normally attributed to Voltaire, who was French.

while often mistakenly attributed to voltaire, the quote, which it turns out i paraphrased rather than quoted precisely, is actually from a 1906 work about voltaire's writings by evelyn beatrice hall.

i've always assumed she was american, but i cannot be certain.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by sultan: a great american once said "i may not agree with a word you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it."

[img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] That saying is normally attributed to Voltaire, who was French.

I am not going to comment whether or not Yorick should not have been offended, for it is not my place to make such a decision. Neither will I comment whether or not the sig should have been removed, because that is not my decision to make.
That being said, I do agree that that particular quote is short-sighted. Religion does not stop a thinking mind. In fact, theology is a serious academic subject; one may spend an entire lifetime studying even only one religion and never learn all there is to learn about it. At its core, religion is designed to answer one question: why are we here?
I have studied religion, even though I may not live it like Yorick does; I strongly disagree with the conclusion that my mind has somehow "stopped". [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Well said!!!

[Maelakin]

Originally posted by Azred: I am not going to comment whether or not Yorick should not have been offended, for it is not my place to make such a decision. Neither will I comment whether or not the sig should have been removed, because that is not my decision to make. That being said, I do agree that that particular quote is short-sighted. Religion does not stop a thinking mind. In fact, theology is a serious academic subject; one may spend an entire lifetime studying even only one religion and never learn all there is to learn about it. At its core, religion is designed to answer one question: why are we here? I have studied religion, even though I may not live it like Yorick does; I strongly disagree with the conclusion that my mind has somehow "stopped".

The above is actually why I took it down. It seems to be misinterpreted by many people. I have to think of a way to re-word it so it is non-offensive and actually portrays the complete thought. I just wanted to keep it from being wordy.

I’m not suggesting that those who study theology (religion) are incapable of thinking, and I am certainly not suggesting that those who have faith in one of the various versions of why we are here are also incapable of thinking.

Seeing as how there are many Christians on this board, I’ll direct this question to them (it can also be applied in various other ways to all religions. The Bible is a book that is left open to interpretation. Have you read it for yourself, and in doing so, have you formed your own foundation for your beliefs? Or, do you blindly accept the interpretation a religious institution has formed without questioning?

When you look at my statement in this regard, I’m sure you can see the validity in the statement.

In truth, most people follow a religious Philosophy , not a religion itself. After all, how many people actually agree 100% with everything a specific religion states, unless of course they have not taken the time to study what they think they are following.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by GForce: Now that's just ridiculous. Maelakin IMO was not directing it at a particular religion or institution. If I was him, I'd keep it there.

Maybe Maelakin understands the value of tact? In fact I appreciate the fact that even though he didn't agree with Yorick he removed it anyway. Thank you for that, Maelakin. Averted a possible incident. Like Yorick said, it's called consideration. I would expect and appreciate Yorick to do the same for Maelakin if the converse occurred. Give-and-take. Just as long as we remain reasonable with it all and don't start getting hypersensitive. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Personally, I all think you're all - from my experience debates about religion will always go around in circles - but hey, that's just my opinion and as long as you don't call each other names, make each other look stupid, throw your toys out of the crib and when the debate's not going the way you like, then you're more than welcome to chew the fat about whatever. This is why this forum exists, after all.

Keep at it - but respect each other, even if you don't like each other. Each to his own, after all.

[ 10-24-2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[pritchke]

It is not religion that stops the thinking mind, it is usually people who refuse to question there leaders actions, or take everything that say as the absolute truth. They refuse to question and think for themselves and they stop using their minds. Applies to both politics and religion if you ask me. If you think about it politics and religion are really not that different. I would give examples of leaders that people follow blindly but some may be offended.