Canadian Election

[Luvian]

Personally, I'm for the liberals, but I think they need to lose to come back to reality. They've been in power so long they take it for granted and think they can do anything they wish.

In my ideal scenario we'll have a minority covernment with some random party I don't care about, and then next election the liberals will win a majority.

[Knightscape]

Originally posted by Aerich: Sorry for the late response Morgeruat, I didn't see your post until just now. As I understand it, the leadership and many members of the current Canadian Conservative party wish to have more government control over social issues.

It would be more correct to say that they wish for social issues to be controlled in a matter that differs from the current socialist agenda that has been imposed on all Canadians.

Many in the party follow a philosophy of government that goes beyond serving its people to trying to tell them how their lives should be lived.

They must have taken a page from the left leaning parties.

This is at least partly the agenda of a longstanding Christian Right movement in Alberta. The current Conservative Party is a union of two former right-wing parties: the centre-right Progressive Conservatives, who focused on right-wing economic policy, and the Reform Party, which was dominated by Albertans and was significantly farther to the right on social issues - kind of an equivalent to a Deep South wing of the US Republican Party.

The Reform Party was formed to make fight the socialist agenda. An agenda that made no room for anyone that disagreed with the socialist way of doing things.

The most obvious expression of this philosophy is in the Conservative agenda to reopen the law permitting civil marriages for gays and lesbians. In 2004, the federal government referred a question to Canada's highest court, asking if the proposed law permitting such marriages was consistent with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, part of the Canadian Constitution somewhat analogous to the US Bill of Rights. The answer was yes.

A court that has been stacked with left of centre activist judges (once again disregarding anyone that disagrees with the left way of doing things).


[quote]
If anyone is interested, the full text of the Same Sex Marriage Reference is found here. People might also be interested in a Supreme Court of Canada decision of 1998, which chastised the Alberta legislature for instituting a provincial equality statute that conspicuously did not include a guarantee against discrimination based on sexual orientation. See Vriend v. Alberta, where the plaintiff was a gay man who was fired from his job as a college instructor when his orientation became known by the administration, and had no recourse under the Alberta Individual's Rights Protection Act.

[QB] The Conservative Party indicated immediately that it did not agree with the Same Sex Marriage Reference (the unanimous legal opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada, mind you!), and intended to remove that law if it gained power. They have since backtracked a little, but that goal is not in doubt.

The Conservative Party indicated that they wanted a free vote on the issue. The Liberal leadership wanted noting to do with a free vote and once again pushed through their agenda without regard to anyone who might disagree with their point of view, and once again resorted to their fear and smear campaign against anyone who disagreed.

To me, the opposition to this law is largely characterized by hidden homophobia and is socially reactionary. I do understand that some people oppose it primarily because it is called "marriage", not "civil union", but I personally don't see the difference. They are married by the state, and no religious group is forced to perform the ceremony. Therefore, the only real effects are to make gay couples equal under the laws of the land (e.g. regarding spousal benefits) and to allow them to make a formal and state-recognized commitment to each other. It poses no harm and no threat to heterosexuals or religious groups, other than offending their prurient sensibilities. I also understand the Biblically-based criticisms of the law, but I believe in a wide separation of Church and State, and I don't think religious objections based upon 2000-year-old source texts should have any influence on current government policy. While I am in no way affected by the law and never will be, it is a symbol to me of some of the best that Canada offers: tolerance for diversity and commitment to real social equality under the law. I have a few openly gay friends and colleagues, and I see no reason why their sexual orientation should prevent them from entering into a formal partnership with all the legal rights it entails. Our Charter was set up in part to prevent state interference with citizens and in part to foster equality of treatment by the state. I view this law as an expression of that commitment, and I dislike that the proposed repeal of it has become an election issue, with all the shadowy aspects of the political right wing on full display. I have no problem with fiscal conservatism and I support some of the Conservative platform planks such as greater anti-corruption measures in government and increased funding for our military. However, those issues have been pushed into the background by the social morality issue, by the party as much as by the media. In short, I don't feel the Conservative Party will refrain from seeking to impose its own morality through the law, at the expense of many of the progressive steps the law has taken toward social equality.

The Conservative Party and its supporters have traditionally stayed out of imposing their morality on others. The same can not be said for the Liberal Party which continues to use a campaign of fear and ignorance ("hidden agenda", "homophobia") to desperately cling to power.

(imho) The Liberal's continuing policy of using fear and ignorance is an incredibly un-Canadian attitude.

I guess needless to say, I will be voting Conservative.

[Sir Goulum]

Originally posted by Luvian: Personally, I'm for the liberals, but I think they need to lose to come back to reality. They've been in power so long they take it for granted and think they can do anything they wish. In my ideal scenario we'll have a minority covernment with some random party I don't care about, and then next election the liberals will win a majority.

I like minority governments, it controls the party in power a little bit so everything isn't their way or the highway. In my ideal situation, I'd like to see a Liberal minority government again, just so long as the opposition doesn't topple them just to have another election.

[True_Moose]

This will be my first election voting (turned 18 in June), and that depresses me.

I definitely lean towards the left, but my vote is as close as can be to meaningless (I live in Stephen Harper's riding, formerly Preston Manning's, whose provincial MLA is Ralph Klein.) We have candidates from the NDP, Liberals, Conservatives, Greens, and the Canadian Heritage Party, which is a group of people who, to be perfectly honest, I would cross the street to avoid.

I have heard stories that the leader of the Greens is more concerned with having a political party over actually instituting the agenda of the party. The NDP I was going to vote for, but then I got word that one of my classmates was running for them in another riding in Calgary. The problem with him, is that he's one of those people that attaches himself to every social cause around, in an attempt to claim that he is socially aware. But quite honestly, if I have to watch one more of those Liberal-Conservative hate ads during a hockey game, I'm going to vomit.

So it looks like its going to be NDP. I worry that some of their spending might be a little overboard, but I agree with their social policies (they don't seem to be too fussed), and I see them as being the most effective arbiter in what will almost certainly be a minority government.

[pritchke]

Originally posted by True_Moose: This will be my first election voting (turned 18 in June), and that depresses me. I definitely lean towards the left, but my vote is as close as can be to meaningless (I live in Stephen Harper's riding, formerly Preston Manning's, whose provincial MLA is Ralph Klein.) We have candidates from the NDP, Liberals, Conservatives, Greens, and the Canadian Heritage Party, which is a group of people who, to be perfectly honest, I would cross the street to avoid. I have heard stories that the leader of the Greens is more concerned with having a political party over actually instituting the agenda of the party. The NDP I was going to vote for, but then I got word that one of my classmates was running for them in another riding in Calgary. The problem with him, is that he's one of those people that attaches himself to every social cause around, in an attempt to claim that he is socially aware. But quite honestly, if I have to watch one more of those Liberal-Conservative hate ads during a hockey game, I'm going to vomit. So it looks like its going to be NDP. I worry that some of their spending might be a little overboard, but I agree with their social policies (they don't seem to be too fussed), and I see them as being the most effective arbiter in what will almost certainly be a minority government.

Same here plus your vote still counts, why give your dollar to the two major parties. Last year I voted green to give them 4% of the popular vote. I wonder if your classmate is running in my riding?Patrick Arnell. The person seems very young probaly just graduated from UoA. Almost made me switch my vote to the greens has his mug and profile is on the CBC website. I am voting for the NDP as well just because they have the best ad with giving the liberals the boot, and this big rubber boot comes down. It is pretty chessy but it made me laugh and the other party ads just tick me off. So I will be giving the NDP my vote. They don't stand a chance against the PCs but you never know there are always a few surprise winners.

[ 01-23-2006, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[True_Moose]

No, that's not him. The guy runs in Calgary West, against Anders. Anyway, the way I figure it, and this is something that (it seems like) no one in the media has touched on: the NDP only has X amount of budget and effort they can spend on ridings. They're only going to spend it heavily on close ridings that they stand a chance of winning. So if I vote for the NDP, even if they don't win in the riding now, if they have a strong showing, they may focus more heavily on it. Can you imagine the NDP taking Harper's seat?

[Sir Goulum]

Harpers seat? That's physically impossible, unless Layton was bribing people. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[pritchke]

Originally posted by True_Moose: No, that's not him. The guy runs in Calgary West, against Anders. Anyway, the way I figure it, and this is something that (it seems like) no one in the media has touched on: the NDP only has X amount of budget and effort they can spend on ridings. They're only going to spend it heavily on close ridings that they stand a chance of winning. So if I vote for the NDP, even if they don't win in the riding now, if they have a strong showing, they may focus more heavily on it. Can you imagine the NDP taking Harper's seat?

Oh! The guy with the hippie look, no offense to people who looks like hippies but not every one will take him seriously. I guess the NDP are trying to get the Marijuana party vote. Yes, I can imagine the NDP taking Harper's seat, more surprising things have happened, but than again I believe in miracles.

[ 01-23-2006, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Sir Goulum]

So what do you guys predict will turn out in this election? I think it's obvious that there will be a Conservative government(ick!), but it's just a question of whether or not it'll be a minority or a majority. I'm hoping for a minority government, but knowing my luck it's going to end out being a slim majority. I hope the greens do get a seat this time round.

[pritchke]

I think you will be correct, Sir Goulum.

[ 01-23-2006, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]