Political Schizophrenia - and how Unions Suck

Can't answer your question TL, since I don't follow trade and tarrif issues for the most part. I will say, that worrying about US steel companies right now is a bit late, there aren't that many.

[Ar-Cunin]

Labour Unions can work. In Denmark we have a union-membership of around 85% - and things run smoothly. General Strikes happen on average every 13th year, when employers and workers have to test each other. On the other hand 'wildcat' strikes only happens rarely.

The labour-market works through coorperation where both sides acknowledge the others right to exist - the employers have the right to direct and allocate work, and the workers have the right to form unions and strike.

Both employers and workers unions work closely with the government to ensure that conditions on the labour-market is acceptable to both sides.

[Timber Loftis]

Glad to see a post on the pro-Union side. Doesn't such a high Union rate drive wages up too high? Perhaps, if Unions are so prevalent that you have 80% membership, then no one can really drive wages to the silly rates some unions do (e.g. UAW) here in the US.

I think perhaps the Unions in Denmark lack the involvement of our favorite "family" friends. Unions would work well here too...if it were not for the amount of extor....err Dues that the family can collect.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [edit] I should really write more on this, but time is short. I will say that I heard a construction contractor discussing it on an airline flight to Miami I was on. He did construction in both places. In Miami, it's very straightforward: hey, I need a carpenter, you know one? In Chicago, if you're not using a union carpenter, the carpenter's union will show up and "interview" you regarding why. Same for the bricklayers union, plumber's union, concrete pourers union, etc. ad nauseum. And, the general contractor very quickly gets the not-so-subtle message that if he's going to stiff them all, he might want to invest in security for his property(ies). I'll add more as I have more time.

Florida's a "right to work" State, You can tell the Union's to to kiss your (body cavity of choice) and they can'y do a thing to you. Same here in Alabama, wages are lower for the most part, but so is everything else, so it's a trade off. It's not the high cost of living that gets you, It's the cost of living high (on the hog)

[Lord of Alcohol]

Unions have gotten ridiculous and it will be the downfall of them. A friend of mine for some unkown reason went to Kansas City and got a union framing job. He was qualified at some sort of "Journeyman" level for which he was well qualified. He got yelled at for getting his own nails. Apparently your supposed to just stand there until a laboror brings you nails, even if the nails are only 10 feet away. I have hired a union HVAC man who was laid off. The guy would do NOTHING unless you told him to. Unions were/ARE a good idea, but they have lost touch with reality. The home prices do not allow for some idiot to make $25/hour+another $10/hour in benefits. Who can pay that? Not me. Therefore no union slackards

[Chewbacca]

I have had to practically sneak out-of-state labor into my store to work on remodel. It never occured to me that the reason was to avoid having a wiseguy or two show-up.

I'm in favor of unions. Any organization is prone to corruption, so I why single-out the unions for it.

Besides, they ultimatly produce a higher standard of living. In some industries being hired in the union is alot like getting a promotion. This is how it went when I did stage-hand work. Being union meant more work for better pay, but only experienced people with connections were invited into the union.

[Gabriel]

Unions ,to be a devils advoct here, help.
They prevent the Corp' from screwing the worker, sure the screw the worker them selves but it the workers who vote what the Union does.
Non-union workers are 'told' not to do things becauseif they hurt themselves it effect the union (insurance costs etc) and it take jobs from Union members. As for not doing anything unless told, if they hurt themselves chances are the Corp' will say the weren't job what they were hired for it their own fault.
The union tries to keep it own intresets at heart, to protect their own as do the Corp's but in the end the innocent suffer from both their actions.

As for US parties, it as Goverment. They suck world over, no one does want they are ment to only what will get them in power.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [QB]I hate how the Democratic party's ties to big labor befoul its existence as a party. Hell, if it weren't for big labor, 50% of my problems with democrats would be gone. Not that there are only 2 problems I see with Democrats, just that fully 1/2 of the list, when weighted for importance, centers around this connection. Chicago - this weekend. Dominick, owned by Chi-based Safeway, foods workers voted 80% to strike. Dominick had offered what one unioneer said was "fair" contract offers. Dominick said it would fold as a Co. if it couldn't work this out. The union responded, assholes that they are, QB]

That’s a mean and ill-considered thing to say, My own dear father Was a union official here once, and took part in strikes for better pay for teachers and I have only the utmost respect for what he did.

You’re expressing a very middle class view; professionals and such often have no need for unions. But there are many people who do, for example people working lo-paid jobs, May not earn enough thus not having enough job-protection,
The simple fact is, that without unions the employers can walk all over their employees, They are isolated and vulnerable, but when they band together as a union they can use their collective bargain power to ensure fair treatment.

The fundamental point remains that many workers are underpaid and often treated poorly.
For example in my fathers case, Teachers were getting rubbish pay since the government in order to save money had not given teachers any pay rise or pay rise’s below the rate of inflation, thus decreasing their wages in real terms.

Now thing about it, Teachers are one of the most important jobs in the whole of society, they create the future.
Should they be paid so badly?
Without unions they would have no recourse,
You cannot trust corporations or employers to be just and fair, nor even the government.

The problems arises that many people will enter unions in order to ingratiate themselves with their employers and thus the union can become a cats paw and a foil to the rightful interests of it's members, thus a careful balence is needed, but in the end, unions are good.

Remember, The first act of both the communists and the facists was to break the unions.