iraq - first day of inspections finished...

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Piestrider: Just my opinion, but I doubt that they're gonna find any weapons of mass destruction because I'm sure that the Iraqi's have thoroughly covered their tracks and hidden most of their weapons. If you had a bunch of weapons that you weren't supposed to have, and you had a month or two to hide them, wouldn't you?

Perhaps, but if that's the way the majority of westerners feel then it makes no difference what actual evidence gets turned up. You've made up your mind about things before you've even looked at the real situation. I'm not criticising you personally, just speaking hypothetically is all. I think the bottom line is that the Bush administration is going to go to war with Iraq no matter what, this is just a means of doing it 'by the book' so to speak. I'm not saying whether it's a good or bad thing, just that I think most of this is just for show.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Pride is a funny thing. They weren't too proud to surrender and promise to allow inspectors as a condition of that surrender. They weren't too proud to violate their agreement with the UN, and their leader wasn't too proud to tell his people that Iraqi forces actually crushed the west in the Gulf War. Actually, this does have to do with pride. The pride of Saddam Hussein, not the pride of the people of Iraq. They would be proud if the money that Saddam has spent illegally on weapons systems during the sanctions had been spent instead on food.

Heh, yeah, perhaps pride wasn't the best choice of words.

*ahem*.

They've got big egos man!

Anyways, I'm not saying I condemn nor condone the Iraqi government. Just that they're actions are understandable when put in human terms rather than purely legalistic, legislative, even 'ethical' ones.

And Johnny, yeah, when a royal family's days are numbered, they usually becoming aware of it pretty 'thoroughly'.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Piestrider: Just my opinion, but I doubt that they're gonna find any weapons of mass destruction because I'm sure that the Iraqi's have thoroughly covered their tracks and hidden most of their weapons. If you had a bunch of weapons that you weren't supposed to have, and you had a month or two to hide them, wouldn't you?

Now consider that they've had four years.

Kind of depressing, huh?

If the inspectors truly do a good job, I think they will find the evidence if it's there. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Attalus]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: Heh, yeah, perhaps pride wasn't the best choice of words. *ahem*. They've got big egos man! Anyways, I'm not saying I condemn nor condone the Iraqi government. Just that they're actions are understandable when put in human terms rather than purely legalistic, legislative, even 'ethical' ones. And Johnny, yeah, when a royal family's days are numbered, they usually becoming aware of it pretty 'thoroughly'.

*Grins* this is why I love this forum. Either side will occasionally cede a point to the other. Heirophant, good on you for intellectual honesty. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Redblueflare]

Great only 364 and a quarter days to go before we get our report. I hope we find *something* as to not make ourselves look like idiots. Either way I really doubt we will find it *all*

[Azred]

I have no doubt the inspectors will find at least some evidence of weapons of mass destruction, whether they currently exist or were hastily discarded/scrapped. Hussein wants to be the key player in the entire Middle East; I'm sure that he talks the talk of being pro-Islam, but he is not interested in religion in any way except as a tool for power (just like a typical dictator). He'll use any tool to keep and stay in power; the sad problem is that the Iraqi people are either convinced--or forced to admit--that they love Hussein.

Whether weapons are found or not, the parallels between Hussein and Hitler are too compelling to ignore. For that reason alone, should he not be removed from power? I don't want our forces to crush Iraq, simply remove such a wild spark from the powderkeg that is the Middle East.

[Ronn_Bman]

The really interesting inspection stuff will start on, or shortly after, December 8th. That's the deadline for the Iraqi's to disclose what they do have.

I can't guess whether they'll stick to the "we have absolutely nothing" argument they've always used, thus opening themselves up to be caught completely "red-handed" losing "face" and international support(if the find is large enough), or if they're going to do the smart thing and say, "well here are some things we found that we didn't realize we still had."

The admission of something would, I think, work in their favor on every level, even if it's only a small admission. After everyone got over the initial "they lied" *indignation*(which would take all of a day or two ), it would be forgotten, by most, as a violation or aggressive act and soon be looked upon as a show of good will. Even before the inspectors could begin a thorough inspection regiment, there would be calls for a quick end to sanctions and further inspections.

If the Iraqi's make a small sacrifical admission of guilt on December 8th, that will do more to violate the will of the UN and obstruct the inspectors than all the "shell game" shuffles they could manage.

I'm only a little cynical.

[ 11-27-2002, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Cloudbringer]

No, I'm not posting on topic... [img]smile.gif[/img] I AM however here to say I'm very impressed at how civil this whole thread has been! Very nice! Thanks to all of you for a good, lively, yet friendly thread!

HEHE..yah, I'm making an example of you... one to actually follow, not avoid!

[norompanlasolas]

hey, were are my womd's!!!

i agree that lots of people would indeed look pretty stupid if it turned out that there are in fact no womd's in irak, george bush being first among them (hey, that would be a shocker!). thats why i think that if they dont find anything, "something" will happen to a us/brit plane, unmovic member, etc that will give an excuse to attack irak.

[ 11-28-2002, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: norompanlasolas ]

[Night Stalker]

Just to post a wild off the wall crazy idea to fuel the conspiracy theorists, if the Bush Administration were so bent on waging war on Iraq, wouldn't they "make sure" that some evidence was found. Truth is, the Gulf war has never "ended". Coalition forces have been stationed there since '91. Troops are still shot at. It just ain't sexy for the camaras anymore. I believe that reliable intel exists to show that Hussein has been researching/stockpiling WoMD. I also believe that the UN team won't find anything.

Unfortunatly we have the Treay of Versilles (SP?) all over again. Iraq, forced into submission, would rather spend it's money on military power than feed it's people. Though I highly doubt the "100% Iraqi people vote" for Hussein, remember, Hitler was initially elected as well.