Are Bards any use ?

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grand-Ranger:


Hahah, That's how I always imagined my bards.

I tried to make a 'band' of bards one time, didn't work out too well [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Too funny.

And here you are trying to leave the Hyenas????

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by SixOfSpades:
To cast Bards in a fairer light, let's compare one with the class that I think they are most like, the Mage/Thief.

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What about Fighter/Mage/Thief? Isn't that a little closer again?

[Lemernis]

Heh, alright, the singing in battle thing I can grudgingly accept. And the harps are enchanted, so it becomes a little more plausible when you remember the bard is using a magical item.

One minor 'issue' I have with bards, fighter-mages, or any form of xxxx-mage: I always play in multiplayer mode where during battle the game doesn't unpause when I go into a character's backpack. (I'm currently playing a party of 6 player created characters.) As such you can do what amounts to a cheat by changing armor in the midst of battle. With a fighter-mage, bard, etc., you can cheat by removing the armor to spellcast, then putting it back on to fight, etc. I try to avoid doing this because it would be impossible in an actual battle. But at times if a battle is tough, and a character is on the ropes and I'm looking at reloading, I do succumb to the temptation. I know I could convert the multiplayer game to single player mode. But there are some things that I think with high dex a character could plausibly do more or less in the blink of an eye, eg, toss a potion to someone. Anyway, mainly I just don't want to give up this advantage when I really need it (I reload enough as it is, lol!).

[Barry the Sprout]

When I try to do that it tells me that you can't change armour during battle. I played as a bard all the way through BG1 and 2 so that was a bit of a bitch (if a bit more plausible than the alternative).

I personally think Bards are really good - although they are weaker at the start. Even at low levels they have these points going for them:

1. High Lore is a must for a party as far as I am concerned - and this just gets more important as you go through the game.
2. Pickpockets is very, very, useful at times. Don't want to kill someone with an item you want? Just steal it - they'll never know. And frankly you want to have the proficiency points spare for the party theif rather than having to have them do this for you.
3. The odd mage spell should not be sniffed at. At higher levels my Bard took out Firkraag with a lucky Magic Missile. Stuff like that can swing the combat.
4. Bards actually have fairly good HPs, depending on CON. So they are not all that bad on the front line. Especially with the ability to cast haste, blur, spirit armour, etc on themselves when things get hairy.
5. Bard Song is very effective at high levels. It can also give you the edge in earlier combats. I didn't use this ability nearly enough, but in some fights it is well worth it.

Bards rock, except Blades IMO. If you want to play a fighter - play a fighter. They are better at fighting, and bards are better at all the other stuff. Skalds would be good, but it didn't really fit the roleplay image I wanted for my PC. So I just had a pure class in BG2. But there I go again - rambling away...

[Midget Gems]

I agree that the idea of a Bards Song is good in theory, however since you can't do much else at the same time this makes it unusable. You seriously think he's going to stand at the back, and whistle, will the rest of the team get stuck in. If only they had programmed it to last for a few turns after he stops, then the whole idea would work a lot better.

[SixOfSpades]

Yorick, I think the class that most closely 'mirrors' the Bard is the Mage/Thief, NOT the Fighter/Mage/Thief, because:
The F/M/T can wear any armor, helms, shields (Bards can't)
The F/M/T can get an 1something) Strength (Bards can't)
The F/M/T can put 2 stars into a weapon (Bards can't)

The only definite differences between a Bard and a Mage/Thief is the Bard can wear Chain as opposed to Studded Leather (not a big jump), the Bard can use Longbows, Crossbows, and a few melee weapons that the Mage/Thief can't (Axes, Flails), and of course Bard Song. And the weapon restrictions on the Mage/Thief don't hurt at all, because there's no shortage of weapons that he CAN use. I also forgot to put in my 'thesis' post that Bards and Mage/Thieves have the same THAC0 progression, and they gain weapon stars at the same rate. (Although the Bard will always be a little bit ahead in this regard, as his pure class gains levels faster.)

About pickpocketing, Barry: I quite agree, it's one of the most handy skills there is. That's why I chose a Mage/Thief instead of a Bard; if I recall correctly, he had 100% Pick Pockets when a Bard would have had only 70%. Specializing in Pockets so early didn't hurt my party, because I had a second Thief doing the more 'respectable' Thieving skills.

[Yorick]

Point taken.

In the 1st edition AD&D the Bard started as a fighter, became a thief, then became a Bard. I always thought the resultant class in 2nd edition was a merger of those three. Fighter, thief and mage, though of course not great at either.

When forming a party, I always keep in mind the old quarter.
Fighter
Magic User
Cleric
Thief.

The two remaining characters supplement and support the first four, and so are often multi for me.

A Palladin is a fighter with a bit of Cleric. A Ranger is a fighter with some thief and some Druid thrown in.

If I had a Palladin I felt better about having a Druid for example.

A Bard gave good Archer support, and secondary Mage skills, with a supplemented pickpocketing, hear noises etc.

In SoA hearing noises is gone.

So much for the benefit of superior hearing.

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Midget Gems:
I agree that the idea of a Bards Song is good in theory, however since you can't do much else at the same time this makes it unusable. You seriously think he's going to stand at the back, and whistle, will the rest of the team get stuck in.

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Well, we covered what the actual "song" might entail, and yes. I if the party prefered the morale boost from his battlesong, than the morale boost a few arrows overhead might give, I'd say he'd do it all day if that smelly Half-Orc Barbarian, and means arsed Assasin told him to.

"I want the one about my dead brother. How them bastard Trolls killed him. Makes me angry. Makes me fight better, so you better sing your lungs out little half elf."