Imoen

[Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV]

Posted by: Jan Hmm I was also wrong...

Ahh don't worry you'll get used to it,... just as I have!

[ 06-22-2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV ]

[Lemmy]

Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV:
Quayle is my favorite NPC, because he has such a plethora of both mage and cleric spells, plus he's funnier than all heck!

I typically blast Quayle for his, well, ineptness. (He's nowhere near as intelligent as he claims.) But in truth, I've taken him into my parties more than any other NPC. Granted, that's only two times -- I tend to solo and rarely play parties all the way through before starting another character -- but those two times count. [img]smile.gif[/img] I have a soft spot for Illusionists.

a wimpy hafling or gnome fighter (max of 3 rerolls on stats)

HEY! Leave them out of it! "They're small, but they're fierce!" If anyone's wimpy, it's those silly humans. No infravision. No bonuses to saving throws. No "racial weapon" (Halfling w/sling). Pah.

Don't forget the Cursed Scrolls! You can make your party substantially weaker with these. They're scattered along the coast, or you can buy them in the game's namesake city. (Look for the building that advertises cheap goods.) Just beware the int-altering scrolls have an effect similar to Feeblemind, effectively immobilizing your character. And, obviously, the Petrification scroll is no good. But definitely try the others. [img]smile.gif[/img]

And if you really want to screw your party over, reverse their roles.
--Thieves: Assume a "tank" role.
--Mages/Bards: Memorize cleric-substitute spells (like Strength for Strength-of-One and Grease/Web for Entangle) and ignore typical mage spells. Remember to always use the LEAST helpful spell (e.g. Web over Grease, since it can immobilize you as well). Alternatively, "buff" them and send them into battle.
--Clerics: Memorize mage-substitute spells (like Magic Stone for Chro Orb) instead of typical Clerical spells. Alternatively, "buff" them and... you know the rest.
--Druids: Shapechange into the crappiest form available and attack.

Speaking of polymorphing, you could use the Wand of Polymorphing (or a simple Polymorph Other spell) to turn your party into squirrels. For mages, Polymorph Self would be an excellent choice for "role reversal" -- just use one of the crappier forms, like Flind.

Can't really think of a way to really screw over a fighter other than completely trashing his stats. You could force Fighters to use Darts or Slings. And best yet, *never* use a weapon a character is proficient in.

Other than the Imaginary NPCs of CandleKeep, who can you think of that would make the above party, even MORE of a 'Motley Crew of Weaklings'?

I think my suggestions could turn even the heartiest Minsc into something with the approximate strength and usefulness of a Kobold. Or did you actually want to stand a chance of seeing the end? [img]smile.gif[/img]

-Lem

[Raistlin Majere]

Originally posted by Lemmy: You could force Fighters to use Darts or Slings

slings are largely under-rated. they can deal pretty nifty damage(providing that your character has high strenght) since they allow strenght bonus. darts can cause some impressive damage if you use them on a fighter who has mastery on darts(you can easily throw 5 darts per round. lets see...5x3=15 per round with an unenchanted weapon which has 1d3 damage, not too bad i say. the downside=you have to have an inventory full of them to really be effective. the ease of use mod will help), remember the "fastest dart thrower in the sword coast"? he can deal alot of damage on you if you're not careful.

[Lemmy]

Raistlin:
slings are largely under-rated. ... darts can cause some impressive damage if you use them on a fighter who has mastery on darts(you can easily throw 5 darts per round. lets see...5x3=15 per round with an unenchanted weapon which has 1d3 damage, not too bad i say.

I picked on Slings and Darts because they seemed, to me, to be the two greatest "underdog" weapons. You need to plan ahead to make them really useful. As such, I think I rated them deservingly given the circumstances I was considering, especially taking into account what the Fighters could be doing instead.

-Lem

[Lord Dracon]

Can't forget to get the girdle of Feminity/masculinityso you can change their gender and the cursed sword of beserking so they can try to hack away at their teammates

[Bernardo]

SPOILER...
S
P
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Yes, I am playing BG2 , and Imoen IS a mage/thief...

[ 07-02-2003, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Bernardo ]

[Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV]

Posted by: Lemmy HEY! Leave them out of it! "They're small, but they're fierce!" If anyone's wimpy, it's those silly humans. No infravision. No bonuses to saving throws. No "racial weapon" (Halfling w/sling). Pah.

Well... they do incur a penalty for certain abilities depending on their race (Haflings, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes), do they not?

Just as you picked on Darts and Slings, I as well see Gnomes and Haflings as "underdogs", atleast with respect to the class 'Fighter'.

Don't forget the Cursed Scrolls! You can make your party substantially weaker with these. They're scattered along the coast, or you can buy them in the game's namesake city. (Look for the building that advertises cheap goods.) Just beware the int-altering scrolls have an effect similar to Feeblemind, effectively immobilizing your character. And, obviously, the Petrification scroll is no good. But definitely try the others. And if you really want to screw your party over, reverse their roles. --Thieves: Assume a "tank" role. --Mages/Bards: Memorize cleric-substitute spells (like Strength for Strength-of-One and Grease/Web for Entangle) and ignore typical mage spells. Remember to always use the LEAST helpful spell (e.g. Web over Grease, since it can immobilize you as well). Alternatively, "buff" them and send them into battle. --Clerics: Memorize mage-substitute spells (like Magic Stone for Chro Orb) instead of typical Clerical spells. Alternatively, "buff" them and... you know the rest. --Druids: Shapechange into the crappiest form available and attack. Speaking of polymorphing, you could use the Wand of Polymorphing (or a simple Polymorph Other spell) to turn your party into squirrels. For mages, Polymorph Self would be an excellent choice for "role reversal" -- just use one of the crappier forms, like Flind.

I will definetly consider many of your above ideas, however, trying all of them at the same time, would be, tantamount to suicide.

I guess my overall aim is to formulate a party which has atleast an "equal" or "lesser" ability of that of my opponents.

When my party is confronted with a band of adventurers whom are of "ill-intent", I wouldn't mind having to 'Reload' three or four times before actually defeating them. Where as before, whenever my party was faced with a little challenge, it often wouldn't take more than a round or two before this "challenge" was neutralized.

The more that I think about it though, I probably wouldn't want to have a group of TOTALLY inept, clumsey, suicidal, social misfits.

More of less just a group of, PARTIALLY inept, clumsey, semi-suicidal, upper-societal misfits, would do just fine.

Thanks for the advice Lemmy, Raistlin Majere, and Lord Dracon; I will definitely give some of it a whirl!

[Halbarad1891]

Originally posted by Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV: quote: Posted by: Lemmy HEY! Leave them out of it! "They're small, but they're fierce!" If anyone's wimpy, it's those silly humans. No infravision. No bonuses to saving throws. No "racial weapon" (Halfling w/sling). Pah.

Well... they do incur a penalty for certain abilities depending on their race (Haflings, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes), do they not?

Just as you picked on Darts and Slings, I as well see Gnomes and Haflings as "underdogs", atleast with respect to the class 'Fighter'. [/QUOTE]They're only underdogs with certain classes. Haflings (+dex, -str) for example wouldn't make good fighters. But Gnomes (+int, -wis) make fine fighters just poor clerics and druids. I know my Gnome fighter/thief is probably the best characters I've played.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-26-2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Halbarad1891 ]

[Midget Gems]

Good to hear that you guys are standing up for my small friends. Thanks, and keep up the good work. After I had finished the game a couple of times I rounded up all the so called weaker NPCs and worked out how to get the best out of them - and so Midget Gems was born. They turned out to be great adventurers with great personalities. Hi-ho Hi-ho

M.G.

[Lemmy]

Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV:
Well... they do incur a penalty for certain abilities depending on their race (Haflings, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes), do they not?... I as well see Gnomes and Haflings as "underdogs", atleast with respect to the class 'Fighter'.

(holy war)
Silence, racist! And you leave those rotten, self-important, leaf-eating, look-at-me-nancy-about-on-top-of-the-snow Elves out of it! (Cookie if you know the reference.) Tallfolk have no place among the wee ones!
(/holy war)

I guess my overall aim is to formulate a party which has atleast an "equal" or "lesser" ability of that of my opponents.

Ah! Well, to be really nasty, you could make your party fight using scripts *only*. Use really bad scripts that make them no smarter than your enemies. Let *them* perform all combat. Micromanage nothing, save things your scripts don't do.

If not that, you could try running your mages/clerics using only Save-or-Else spells. In my experience, relying excusively on Save-or-Else can be downright debilitating compared to the cushy life of elder mages with scads of MM's.

More of less just a group of, PARTIALLY inept, clumsey, semi-suicidal, upper-societal misfits, would do just fine.

Well, say no more: You want Skie! That, of course, implies Eldoth. Garrick's just as fantastic as Eldoth, though less misfit-y. (G's friendly. E's a scumbag.) Shar-Teel, Quayle, Tiax, and Xan also seem like misfits, though Shar is perhaps the most capable among them. And even then, Xan's not holpless; he just doesn't have MM, Chro Orb, FBall, or Cloudkill. Faldorn's not just a misfit, that gal's completely counter-culture. Eco-Terrorist would be the modern term, I think. Hm, that's definitely a good twist on using her.

Dammit. Now I want to be an Eco-Terrorist druid. Grr, must finish current parties first...

-Lem