Man claiming to have bomb shot at Airport.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: ... quote: but I do believe that perhaps a leg shot should have been more in order, don't you?

I will agree with you to a point that will make the difference to me. I read that he actually started reaching into the bag, and that is when he was taken down. Maybe not a bomb, but if he had a gun in there instead...it still could have been a dangerous situation. I would agree to take the man down with a non-lethal shot if he could be seperated from that bag he was bragging about...but if he actually did reach in and that is not just media hype...that was the deciding factor for that marshal and for me.


On a side note...I heard Neal Boortz talking today on the radio about it, and he mentioned that the majority of the people trying to demonize the marshal's decision are people:

1. who oppose guns in the US
2. Who oppose Bush, and are hoping that the bad hype will be a slap in his face.

Is there any truth to this claim? [/QUOTE]No. Firstly, I'm not trying to "demonize" anything. Secondly, my disdain for guns and dislike for Bush's policies have nothing to do with my opinions on this.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I'm going to go against 99.9% of Americans, who are (IMO, ignorantly) rubber-stamping this marshal's actions. DHS is pathetic. They waste billions of dollars worth of people's time to not accomplish anything at the security lines, their hiring practices are crap, and they're busy shooting passengers rather than catching terrorists. Even when they do catch a supposed terrorist, it turns out he was actually just an innocent man caught up in a big charade played to make us think they are doing something (related article yesterday). If this bozo was as well trained as marshals supposedly are, he should not have shot, but had he done so should have been able to take the guy down with a non-lethal shot. He's pathetic, DHS is pathetic, and my countrymen are pathetic for following along on this ride like obedient little sheeple. Hut, Hut, Hut-Hut-Hut, Hut Hut!!

Holy Sheep shots Timber! You are on to something significant here. Yes, he could of, or should he? Yes, maybe a leg shot, or an arm hit? Maybe, even shot placement to the upper torso. He did in fact depart the airplane? Therefore, the Marshall should have taken into account the bag he was intending on grabing was his? Maybe, somehow this (his) bag was left off the plane for a reason? Maybe, just maybe this bag had a transmitter in it?

Nope, wake up, this is modern era, no way such things could happen. I agree, shot placement could have been better. Then again, when was the last time you squezzed the trigger on a "positive" target?

Realistically speaking! It all boils down to training! On a range, "I" can hit the 4, 5, or even 6 ring 15 out of 15 shots. Period. Add stress to the situation, have some folks yelling around me, add some NON HOSTILE targets, and guess what? I hit the 10 ring every shot. Why? Because the 10 ring will drop a target every time! Where is the 10 ring? CENTER OF VISIBLE MASS!

So, training? Yes, hit center mass! Add environmental factors! Yes make shot placement count = Center mass!

And Illumina: Think about it this way. You are now under OATH, and oath to Protect the citizens of the United States. Now, WHAT would you do?

I stood behind the actions of the British police not too long ago. And I'll stand behind the actions of this Marshall as well.

Folks, When and if! You swear an OATH to protect the citizens of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic, that MEANS PROTECT and DEFEND. If you MUST use lethal force, then IT HAD BETTER be LETHAL! Because the enemy don't give a rats backside!

[machinehead]

"People, the "Potential terrorist" angle simply does not work because terrorists don't tell people they have bombs, remember? They don't. That simple fact means that if somebody DOES make such a claim, something's up."

I think you'll find that pre 9/11 almost all skyjackers, terrorist or otherwise, announced that they had a bomb, gun or other weapon in order to take over an aircraft.

[Sir Degrader]

No, but a panic is just as bad in some cases.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: On a side note...I heard Neal Boortz talking today on the radio about it, and he mentioned that the majority of the people trying to demonize the marshal's decision are people: 1. who oppose guns in the US 2. Who oppose Bush, and are hoping that the bad hype will be a slap in his face. Is there any truth to this claim?

What a bunch of Poo Poo. Bush and his team have done a good enough job on their own to deserve steady 35-40% approval poll numbers.

The only thing a broader gun usage issue has to do with this is the fact that some people panic while weilding fire arms and shoot innocent people. Coincidentally this happens to be my theory on what occured on that walkway in Miami. That still doesnt equate to "guns are bad" and people still kill people, whether it be with a gun or a toaster.

[Chewbacca]

One thing I have missed in looking over the media stories of this in the last few days are eye-witness accounts of this guy claiming he had a bomb. I have read a few from people who saw him sing a spiritual, behave agitated and possibly afraid(of flying), and that he ran off the plane from the back. Only the shooters, from what I have found so far, claim he made a bomb threat.

Anyone else find any other witness accounts of the bomb threat? As I go look again on google, I can now only find witnesses claiming they heard no bomb threat.

One link with the AP wire:
www.montereyherald.com

Googlenews search of topic

Something STINKS and it's not the dead innocent guy.

[ 12-09-2005, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Aragorn1]

I, like Felix, stood behind the actions of the british police when it seemed the facts were similar to the case, i.e. an iminent bomb threat, however when it was revealed it was not anything of the sort i changed my mind.

The split second decision faced with a man scream he has a bomb and reaching into his bag is a tough one to make. I would support his judgement if he fear there was a bomb. A leathal shot was what was required to ensure it would no be triggered, a disabling shot may still leave him capable of detontating any bomb.

This is coming from someone who is anti-US foreign policy, or at least certain aspects of its execution and is anti-'gun culture' who believes in limited gun ownership, such as in the UK.

However, as in the British case, it seems facts may emerge when the dust has settled which changes the situation.

[TheCrimsomBlade]

One thing That really pisses me off is, after the shooting the securiety force boarded the plane and while waving weapons around pokeing people with them after they had already killed the threat was totally unessary as well as the shooting.
These marshals are so up tight and ready to take down any threat after they failed so bad with securety on 9-11 that now the only threat I see are them. The U.S.Marshalls call them Highly trained air securety agents. High maybe but not highly trained.
To let others here know I voted for Bush and support the war in Irac 100% or at least the members of the U.S. Armed Forces that are there.
But The Natzi Air marshalls and the less than porely trained securiety at all airports need to be RE-trained or Re-placed with less cowardly personel and Better trained or even military trained people might help.
What ever you do when you fly don't be afraid of flying and panic or you could end up with a few ounces of hot lead in your backs.

[TheCrimsomBlade]

Originally posted by Lanesra: quote: Originally posted by Sir Degrader: Are you joking? With the trend of islamic terrorists using women for their own ends, not only would he be justified shooting the man, but also shooting the woman.

Please give an example of ANY Muslim terrorist who announce they are carrying a bomb? [/QUOTE]Only Example is Johnny terrorising this link with his bomb threat

[shamrock_uk]

But of course the Marshall's aren't there only to catch Islamic terrorists. There are plenty of other terrorist groups that announce they've planted bombs before they've detonated.