Wizardslayer alterations

[Dundee Slaytern]

Spell Disruption ignores Magic Resistances and Spell Immunities. The end result may be the same, but the application is different.

[SixOfSpades]

I think the only time that I'm not completely happy with Creeping Doom is in Quile's home, with those three damn Magic-Resistant Drow Wizards. At all other times, it works just fine.

[Imrahil]

I've read this debate with much interest mainly because I *hate* the current incarnation of The Wizard Slayer Kit & find it utterly boring to play & was indeed hoping an improved WS might come about.

But... I don't agree with Rataxes in that WS is fine as is & I don't agree with Six's proposed RebalWS (I can go into reasons why on either front if anyone's interested, but it'd detract from my proposal if I did so here [img]smile.gif[/img] ), so... I may as well toss my own 2 cents in & see how it flies...

How 'bout this...

Totally flip the WS's current equipment restrictions. All Cloaks, Gauntlets, Amulets, Potions, etc., etc. are allowed. ONLY non-magical weapons & armors are allowed.

That's it.

Current spell failure, MR, whatever abilities remain. New WS is an utter failure vs. Liches... so be it (go get a party). New WS loves it when a Mage casts PFMW.

New WS can use MR-boosting equipment to his heart's delight, but (because downsides are good, too) can't touch a Mage's Golem/Mummy/Elemental guardians. Too bad - that's the trade off to his abilities, which are geared towards Slaying Wizards.

FWIW...

- Imrahil

[Rataxes]

Originally posted by Rataxes: Pity, though wouldn’t it be possible to create alternate versions of every weapon in the game with an enchantment of -1, that the original weapon turns into in the hands of a Wizard Slayer, similar to how the Sword of Backstabbing has different properties when wielded by a thief?

Is this not doable? If the Bioware Wizard Slayer could make his weapon of choice punch through mantle spells, that would be a fitting and more than sufficient upgrade for the kit.

The AMA is clearly overpowered in it's current form. I think it would be more reasonable in the form of a single target touch spell such as Energy Drain, usable once per day for every x levels (or maybe just plain once per day, with a special HLA, choosable multiple times, that adds one extra use), but I don't know if perhaps this would stray too far from how you had pictured the ability.

Anyway, I'm pulling out now. You've made it clear enough that the rebalanced Wizard Slayer is a new kit based on new ideas, so I can't argue against it in the context of existing ideas of what the Wizard Slayer should be like. As I've already said, I don't like the fact that the RebalWS has been so meticulously designed to be the perfect countermeasure to every difficulty that spellcasters generally pose, but since that's apparently the core idea of the kit, I have little else to say.

[ 04-27-2005, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[K2Grey]

I would say that liches are the enemies who are difficult, whereas mages are easily defeated by a party. So a WS which is only effective against mages is pretty much pointless except in the case of Improved Irenicus, who goes down reasonably quickly to darts of wounding anyway.

[timothy trotter]

the easiest way to kill litches is to use the sunray abilty with the daystar, i killed the one at the gates in about 5 secounds after the spell is cast. just put some MM into him to disrupt his cansting and then sunray his ass, then just hack and slash. works for me.

[ 04-28-2005, 04:02 AM: Message edited by: timothy trotter ]

[K2Grey]

I believe that the people in this thread are referring to the liches in Tactics which are somewhat more difficult to defeat than a regular one, seeing as how they walk around being immune to everything in the universe. Ao could throw a 90d90 blast of ultimate magic at one of them and the lich would take no damage.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Imrahil: How 'bout this... Totally flip the WS's current equipment restrictions. All Cloaks, Gauntlets, Amulets, Potions, etc., etc. are allowed. ONLY non-magical weapons & armors are allowed. That's it. Current spell failure, MR, whatever abilities remain.

Sorry, but that doesn't wash either. Determining usability by item type instead of what the item does is simply a very illogical way to go about things. The main* qualifier for usability is the issue of whether an item's anti-spellcaster qualities are enough to outweigh the Wizard Slayer's inherent distaste for using any magical equipment. (The secondary qualifier for usability is whether a Wizard Slayer would be screwed without it, such as Healing Potions and 'generic' enchanted weapons.)

I like your point about dealing with Summons, though. Just because Pit Fiend was summoned by a Lich doesn't mean a Wizard Slayer should be able to kick its ass with no difficulties.

Originally posted by Rataxes: ....wouldn’t it be possible to create alternate versions of every weapon in the game with an enchantment of -1, that the original weapon turns into in the hands of a Wizard Slayer, similar to how the Sword of Backstabbing has different properties when wielded by a thief? Is this not doable? If the Bioware Wizard Slayer could make his weapon of choice punch through mantle spells, that would be a fitting and more than sufficient upgrade for the kit.

Well, there are two versions of going at this. One is to allow the RebalWS to use generic enchanted weapons and give him the ability to dispel combat protections such as PfMW. The other is to overhaul every weapon in the game (or, more likely, all except those that don't fit the WS's ethos, such as Soul Reaver) to add a WS-specific enchantment that might not even be possible. Both implementations would have an end result that makes a good deal of sense, but of the two, the first is much more doable. Which brings us to your next point.

The AMA is clearly overpowered in it's current form. I think it would be more reasonable in the form of a single target touch spell such as Energy Drain, usable once per day for every x levels (or maybe just plain once per day, with a special HLA, choosable multiple times, that adds one extra use), but I don't know if perhaps this would stray too far from how you had pictured the ability.

Currently, the Anti-Magic Aura is just that, a small, temporary Dead Magic Zone centered on the Wizard Slayer. All creatures within 15 feet of the RebalWS have a 10% chance, plus 2% per level of the RebalWS, of having their Combat Protections (including Fireshields and Elemental Protections) dispelled. All spells being cast at the moment the AMA is completed will be disrupted. The RebalWS is winded by this ability, and suffers combat penalties for the next 2 rounds (reduced duration to compensate for the odds of the AMA not working).
An HLA that adds additional AMAs is an idea I was considering myself, to compensate for their having limited Greater Whirlwinds, Greater Deathblows, and Smites (each one would probably be capped at 5).

Turning this into the single-target, touch spell you describe would probably have no real effect (unless you mean an actual TOUCH spell, which would require a successful to-hit roll and proper weapon enchantment), since there are rather few battles where more than 1 dangerous spellcaster would be in the range of a single AMA. I just prefer the area-of-effect method because I think it's more in tune with how Dead Magic affects an area, not just a person.

I don't like the fact that the RebalWS has been so meticulously designed to be the perfect countermeasure to every difficulty that spellcasters generally pose, but since that's apparently the core idea of the kit, I have little else to say.

Don't think I'm not glad you said your say--you're right in that people can be blind to the flaws of their own designs, and I'd be quite arrogant to assume I would be an exception. I like having you around to stick up for the spellcasters, because what I don't want is a kit that makes every Wizard in the game commit suicide the moment the PC walks into their room. As it stands now, the RebalWS isn't pure Wizard-bane (Even at Level 40, there's still a 10% chance that the AMA will fail, and I'm considering shortening its radius from 15 feet to 10), he simply has the advantage of being able to breach their defenses long enough to get some Spell-Disrupting hits in. And since his overall combat skills are weaker than the Fighter's, and he is unable to use many weapons (such as Belm), he does not overpower that class either.
I am considering a boost to his Magic Resistance. I'm thinking 10% + 2% per level, thus giving him exactly the same overall MR as the Monk.

[timothy trotter]

oh. those litches seem pretty nasty then