Evolution

[Melusine]

I misremembered. The two fears that you are born with are fear of loud noises and fear of heights.
Those are NOT taught to children Hugh. We are BORN with them, and may learn at a later time to overcome them. But they ARE instinctive - babies will initially have them regardless of what they experience or are taught.

[Sever]

Originally posted by Yorick: Quote: Originally posted by Sever: Quote: Originally posted by Yorick: However unlikely or likely a scenario surrounding bones may be, all we actually have in our hands are bones. Not firsthand proof. Howver the evolutionist, when confronted with new evidence, will attmempt to place their find into the pre-existing theories and it's framework.

I'm sorry i wasn't aware that there was any proof at all of Creation. Bones, unlike humans, cannot lie or bend the truth. The stories that they tell are how we interpret them. Their evidence stays intact until we dig them up and study them. Then they get placed in with the pre-existing theories and framework. You got that spot on. That's how we learn. That's the only way we learn.[/QUOTE]I see the world as art. Beit a sunset, a waterfall a human face or an other scene we attempt to capture in paintings and photos.

Therefore I see it all proof of an artist.

The theme I was emphasising was that I am looking at what I have now, in front of me. Tangible reality. I'm not basing my theory on the speculation surrounding a piles of bones I found in a desert. Mine is simple.[/QB][/QUOTE]I've posted this before in another thread, but here goes. Humans ask a lot of questions. We cannot possibly know the answers to all the questions we ask. But our desire to know gets the better of us. We have to simplify everything in order to understand it. Sometimes we ask questions that are so big that in order to comprehend the answers we have to simplify them so much that they no longer retain logic. Sometimes we even invent answers to questions that we do not understand. Science (darwinism, natural selection) is not an 'answer' to life's questions but rather a means to gradual understanding through trial and error, studying and experimenting. Religion (creation) is not an answer, but rather a simplified, interpretation that no longer retains the logic needed to make that answer plausible. This is, of course, MHO and i realise that i may offend a few people by stating this.

Sunsets are beautiful. As are faces. But just think, is a spider's face beautiful to another spider? If all this was created by a being, then it was not created purely for us. To think so is.. simply naive. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[EDIT: smiley faces. that sorta sounded a bit too harsh]

[ 02-24-2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Sever ]

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by MagiK: Moiraine [img]smile.gif[/img] I have no problem with it at all, Evolution fits in nicely with my Christian beliefs, I do not take Genesis to be a literal story, and believe that God created physical laws for this universe and works his miracles through those laws, not in spite of those laws. Of course I could be burned for heresy in some places

Ditto

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Melusine: I misremembered. The two fears that you are born with are fear of loud noises and fear of heights. Those are NOT taught to children Hugh. We are BORN with them, and may learn at a later time to overcome them. But they ARE instinctive - babies will initially have them regardless of what they experience or are taught.

Really? I've never heard that before. Logic would dictate that we are born fearless cos we are knowledge-less as Yorick suggested but then I guess we are also born with instincts so fear could be part of our instincts.

[Sever]

Goodnight, peoples. Rest safe and well in the knowledge that i shall sleep not a wink this night at the whim of the questions of life. *grumble* [img]smile.gif[/img]

[WillowIX]

I´m going to drop into this discussion late I see. I wonder why I didn´t notice this thread earlier.

I´m all for the evolution theory. But is it correct to say that humans developed from apes? I noticed Yorick found this a faulty fact (correct?). So do I actually. Is it not more appropiate to say that apes and humans share a common ancestor? That would be easier for me to believe in. Unfortunately modern medicine has bypassed human evolution. (This is going to sound awful, so I would like to apologize for this sentence before you read it ) Weak and sick humans do not die today. Instead we have the possibility to keep them in our society (which IMO is a VERY GOOD thing). Therefore survival of the fittest does not truly apply to humans.

Yorick, you asked if our genes didn´t correct themself earlier. Did you get an answer? I´m sorry if you did but I am going to answer it anyway. [img]tongue.gif[/img] No, if you have a chromosome with a mutation, that is you will have a mutated gene, the body can not correct that by itself. Leukemia, cancer and Osteogenesis Imperfecta, to mention a few genetic diseases, are proof of this. Of course our magnificent body has somewhat adapted to this. It can shut down one of the affected chromosomes so that only one gene (the healthy one) will be transcribed. But if you were to suffer from leukemia, there would still be a 50% chance your child would have it too. I hope that explains it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-24-2003, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

So many posts and opinions....there simply isn't enough time to answer them comprehensively.

Moiraine - WHY? Why does evolution create such "emotional responses" on both sides? The answer is actually very simple. One side or the other has to be WRONG! - and neither side is willing to admit that it may be them.

Magik pointed out that he does not view creation and evolution to be mutually exclusive. I agree with this theory - to a point. I do not doubt at all that evolution DOES occur in the development of a species...there is irrefutable proof of that among every species (TTBOMK). However, I do not accept evolution as the origination of a species....be it ape, man, horse, dog, or whale.

And that's what it comes down to in the end. Humans were either created by a Supreme Creator or we weren't. We either formed in (and crawled from) the primordial ooze or we didn't. At the very root of the argument - the two theories are mutually exclusive.

So - one side is right and the other is wrong. There is no way around that. That is why this discussion always resorts to "Here's the proof for my beleif/theory". Nobody wants to admit they may be the ones that are wrong...so rather than focus on that, we ALL provide the best evidence we can to support our personal rationale.

I am as guilty as anyone else. It was mentioned earlier that Christians (or religion in general) cannot admit to evolution because it would "turn our beliefs upside down" (or words to that effect). While my faith and belief in God is based on much, much more than that...I have to admit that statement is more correct than not. However, the "belief system" of the evolutionists would be just as equally "torn asunder" if they admitted that creation is correct. They would be forced to re-evaluate everything they base thier beliefs or theories on - and that prospect is equally intimidating to both sides.

[ 02-24-2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: [QB(TTBOMK). However, I do not accept evolution as the origination of a species....be it ape, man, horse, dog, or whale. And that's what it comes down to in the end. Humans were either created by a Supreme Creator or we weren't. We either formed in (and crawled from) the primordial ooze or we didn't. At the very root of the argument - the two theories are mutually exclusive. Hi Cerek 1st ....wha tis TTBOMK? 2nd. In my therory (my very own ) I see that God evolved our primitive pre-humans using the laws he set for the universe, at some point these pre-men became self aware and this set of initial humans were our Adam and Eve analogs...of course this pretty much throws genesis out the window as anything but parable...or....dang, can't remember the word I want.... *sigh* make it a non-literal story [/QB]

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: I do not doubt at all that evolution DOES occur in the development of a species...there is irrefutable proof of that among every species (TTBOMK). However, I do not accept evolution as the origination of a species....be it ape, man, horse, dog, or whale.

I know this was not directed at me Cerek but I would like to respond anyway. I think you make a very good point in this paragraph (I deliberately left out the religion vs science ). Evolution can not account for all development. Taking the human mitochondria as an example. There are hard evidence that this littel organelle is actually the legacy from a bacteria. It shares the gemome of the bacteria (circular) and human transcription mechanism can not read these genes.

MagiK, very intersting theory. [img]smile.gif[/img] (Oh and replied to your PM, and TTBOMK means To the best of my knowledge I think.)

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by daan: Heck, I'd love to be a monkey [img]smile.gif[/img] Having a tail and being able to climb like crazy seems fun enough to me I quite dislike Darwin though, he's a twit. Survival of the strongest .. yeeeeaaa right [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] It's based on pure luck if you ask me ( and quite a few newer scientists ), nature has a balance, if you come along and dont fit the equilibrium you can be as tough as you want .. you wont survive. Its about being in the right place at the right time, not how strong you are.

daan, Its not the "survival of the strongest", its survival of the fittest. The ability to adapt, or fit, to our envirement. He most certainly is not a "twit". Becouse you dont believe what he says, does not make him stupid.
Have you ever read his work?