My beliefs

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Pikachu_PM: I'd like to challange this assumption with a little paraphrased qoute: "To those who question the validy of space in Gods plan, I would remind them that the void EXIST, just as surely as you or I. Is 'nothingess' any less of a miracle than substance?" Sisterm Miriam Godwenson -We must Decent

That's a perceptional error. The void is nonexistence. Nothing is there. It is a concept because by comparison we know "substance". All that exists is our conception of nothing, not nothing itself.

However, I have not questioned the validity of it in Gods plan. Nothingness needs to comprehended, so we know substance.


I once started a thread about this a while ago. Do a search for it if you like.
It was along the lines of

"If cold is absence of heat, dark the absence of light, and space the absence of matter, does cold dark and space exist?"

Or words to that effect. We ended up having a great discussion if memory serves.

[Maelakin]

The perceptional error is in believing the void to be nonexistence. When we apply a description, we automatically qualify that which we define. In order for something to be qualitative, it must be present for perception. If something can be perceived, it exists.

I have a question for those that believe in God. What or who created God? I know the answer I will receive from most people, as it is always the same. However, for the sake of discussion, I would like to see what the various opinions of people are pertaining to this question.

[Faceman]

Just to lighten the mood:
A common joke among Indologists (I was one for 4 semesters):
Actually overpopulation, the dying of the woods, the extinction of species are very good things. They show that the universe is advancing towards Samsara.
-
(okay I admit it's an Indologosts only joke )

Originally posted by Yorick: However, because it has a beginning, the collection is in another sense, also finite. You can quantify what the lowest whole even number is, and what lowest whole odd number is. Therefore, though it may go on infinitely, the collection itself is finite because it has a beginning. Unless you're going to include going down into fractions that would keep going infinitely. However, the point remains, we are still speaking of infinite assemblies of finite numbers that have at their start in either direction 1. Multiples of one, or fractions of one. So it'a not true infinity. Having a beginning is part of the Universe issue. If in fact, the universe did indeed start with a big bang, or creative thought from God, it is also finite. God is considered truly infinite in that he has no beginning, no end, no limit, outside time, outside space. He just "is". He identified himself as "I AM".

yorick, you have made a number of gross assertions in the recent religious threads that i've very patiently, and dare i even say magnanimously, ignored, out of respect for your passion and beliefs.

but the above comment offends me. it offends me as a mathematician, but more importanlyt it offends me as a participant to these discussions.

what your comment makes abundantly clear is that when you are completely ignorant of what you discuss, you have absolutely no compunction at misrepresenting your knowledge in the blind pursuit of making a point.

by your actions, it is abundantly clear that you have no interest in a dialogue, you are only interested in spouting and defending your ideas and position.

in respect to the rest of us, please try to do so while restricting yourself to those things you understand. much as i've restricted myself from attacking your beliefs out of respect.

[Mouse]

Once again, we seem to have come to a point where the person not the point is being debated.

Calm down - and if you really want to contemplate what might be filling the "void" have a look here

[Timber Loftis]

Oh, and one more point I forgot ton include above, Yorick. You keep talking about destruction being a "positive." Well, you still have not defined either positive or negative, but moreover you forget than matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed -- only made into a different form.

And, Mouse, nice article, but it isn't much to compared to SillyString Theory. Now, there's a mind-boggler!

[ 11-07-2003, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Maelakin: If something can be perceived, it exists.

Then I take it you are saying God exists, since we have a perception or conception of him.

I have a question for those that believe in God. What or who created God? I know the answer I will receive from most people, as it is always the same. However, for the sake of discussion, I would like to see what the various opinions of people are pertaining to this question.

The God I believe in is the only eternal entity. No beginning, no end. Truly OUTSIDE TIME. I don't know what you're disbelieving, but I'm not believing in a God that had a start. I don't believe there was a time God existed. I don't believe time existed without God. I believe God created everything, including time itself.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by sultan: yorick, you have made a number of gross assertions in the recent religious threads that i've very patiently, and dare i even say magnanimously, ignored, out of respect for your passion and beliefs. but the above comment offends me. it offends me as a mathematician, but more importanlyt it offends me as a participant to these discussions. what your comment makes abundantly clear is that when you are completely ignorant of what you discuss, you have absolutely no compunction at misrepresenting your knowledge in the blind pursuit of making a point. by your actions, it is abundantly clear that you have no interest in a dialogue, you are only interested in spouting and defending your ideas and position. in respect to the rest of us, please try to do so while restricting yourself to those things you understand. much as i've restricted myself from attacking your beliefs out of respect.

So presenting an IDEA offends you? Even if I am as ignorant as you suggest, an ignorant man presenting an idea that contradicts what you hold to be true is offensive?

The mind boggles.

Where are the thought police? Hide! Hide!

Believe me, mathematics is my weakest field. I have no hesitation in conceding I am completely at a loss. I am speaking as a layman. Less than a layman. So well done. You kicked a disabled man in the head. I'm approaching infinity from a philisophical point of view, not a mathematical point of view. It doesn't make sense to me to suggest the universe is infinite, nor that numbers of themselves, are infinite.

To me, a single number is finite because it has boundaries. Limits. The assembly of those numbers is to me also finite because they have a point of origin. 1. True infinity (non mathematically) as I PERCEIVE IT has no beginning and no end. It is IN-FINITE.

If I am so stupid and inept, so lateral, then please feel to correct me, rather than forbid me from speaking or getting offended by my presentation of an alternate perception of reality.

[ 11-07-2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Pikachu_PM: Sisterm Miriam Godwenson -We must Decent

I should point out Sister Miriam Godwinson is a computer game character. The "book" quoted is "We must dissent", not "we must decent"

Why are we quoting a computer game character again?

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Pikachu_PM: Sisterm Miriam Godwenson -We must Decent

I should point out Sister Miriam Godwinson is a computer game character. The "book" quoted is "We must dissent", not "we must decent"

Why are we quoting a computer game character again? [/QUOTE]So what if someone wants to quote a game character, if the quote has meaning for them, who cares where it originates?

My sig quote is from a (IMO) remarkable piece of fiction, and if someone wants to condescendingly question my use of it, it reflects poorly on them, not me. (IMO)


Oh, yeah....The thought police must be working a joint operation with the grammar/spelling police in this thread.

[ 11-07-2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]