GPS used to track teens driving?!?!?!

Luvian You are free to raise your kids any way you want...but equating Adult Citizens and the Government to Parents and Children...is ludicrous.

A parent is in charge of his children (or her) and has the right to do practically whatever they want to make sure the kid is raised correctly in the parents view. Children when they become adults are then free to make their own choices. The very fact that most of them don't get this concept PROVES they are not mature enough to be allowed to manage their own affairs.

"Grow up kids and get over yourselves. Your parents know more than you do in nearly every case."


Oh and on the topic of "I'd jus tlose my cell phone" again, a position that points to the fact that you aren't capable of being responsible for your self...and that excuse would work just once...after that You're grounded and
have to be driven to and from all your play dates by mommy and daddy Im sure you would loooove that.


[ 12-16-2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Luvian]

Originally posted by MagiK: Luvian You are free to raise your kids any way you want...but equating Adult Citizens and the Government to Parents and Children...is ludicrous. A parent is in charge of his children (or her) and has the right to do practically whatever they want to make sure the kid is raised correctly in the parents view. Children when they become adults are then free to make their own choices. The very fact that most of them don't get this concept PROVES they are not mature enough to be allowed to manage their own affairs. "Grow up kids and get over yourselves. Your parents know more than you do in nearly every case." Oh and on the topic of "I'd jus tlose my cell phone" again, a position that points to the fact that you aren't capable of being responsible for your self...and that excuse would work just once...after that You're grounded and have to be driven to and from all your play dates by mommy and daddy Im sure you would loooove that.

Yes, yes, very nice excuse. You could put your kid in a cage, beat him every days and tell him to act like a dog, and you'd still be "right" if we follow your nice moral fallacy.

There are limit to what is fair and what is not. That's why most places banned corporal pusnishments.

You know, why not just drop the pretence and give them ear tag, like we do with animals?

And my exemple is perfect and you just proved it. "It's ok to monitor X person, but not me, it's not the same thing."

Either we monitor everyone, or no one. Anything else is hypocrisy.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Luvian: Yes, yes, very nice excuse. You could put your kid in a cage, beat him every days and tell him to act like a dog, and you'd still be "right" if we follow your nice moral fallacy. There are limit to what is fair and what is not. That's why most places banned corporal pusnishments. You know, why not just drop the pretence and give them ear tag, like we do with animals? And my exemple is perfect and you just proved it. "It's ok to monitor X person, but not me, it's not the same thing." Either we monitor everyone, or no one. Anything else is hypocrisy.

No more Hypocritical then to not want others to tell one what to do, then one turns around and tells others what to do.

[Faceman]

There's already a similar system in Germany AFAIK but without GPS, just plain "old" GSM. Parents can just send an SMS to their kids phone and will automatically be notified of their whereabouts.
Personally I think that limiting children's freedom is the first step to limiting freedom in general. If your totally under control as a kid you get used to it and are more controllable as an adult.

[aleph_null1]

Originally posted by MagiK: A parent is in charge of his children (or her) and has the right to do practically whatever they want to make sure the kid is raised correctly in the parents view. Children when they become adults are then free to make their own choices.

There's a lot of truth in this paragraph, MagiK.

If the family is the fundamental unit of society, then the unit commander not only should, but must, be allowed to lead in accordance with his/her own good judgement and experience. At least until s/he's proven incompetent.

For what it's worth, most people benefit more from the bad leadership figures than from the good. When the kids grow up and have families of their own, they'll know how not to lead, which is probably one of the most important steps.

[Luvian]

Originally posted by aleph_null1: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: A parent is in charge of his children (or her) and has the right to do practically whatever they want to make sure the kid is raised correctly in the parents view. Children when they become adults are then free to make their own choices.

There's a lot of truth in this paragraph, MagiK.

If the family is the fundamental unit of society, then the unit commander not only should, but must, be allowed to lead in accordance with his/her own good judgement and experience. At least until s/he's proven incompetent.

For what it's worth, most people benefit more from the bad leadership figures than from the good. When the kids grow up and have families of their own, they'll know how not to lead, which is probably one of the most important steps. [/QUOTE]False, most often than not, childrens reproduce the actions of their parents. That's why most childrens that were raised in an abusive family will also abuse their future familly. There are very few people that manage to "break the circle".

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Luvian: I think anyone that support this is an hypocrit. Would you like the government to track your every movements? After all, the government "know better" than you, and is there to regulate your life and protect you, right? And I agree with Illumina Drathiran'ar, ask a victim of abuse why she's still with her husband/boyfriend... She can just leave after all, right? Teens can leave their abusive parents too, right. They just have to illegaly leave home and live in the street with nothing to survive. Or maybe they can go into prostitution, until the police find them for their parents and bring them back home for more abuse? Great plan! Let's punish and control our childrens instead of raising them right!

First of all, there is a BIG difference between "controlling" your kids and "punishing" your kids (though the kids may not completely agree).

Since you don't believe there is any need to monitor the driving activities of teens, tell me what you would say to the parents whose teenage daughter with a full sports scholarship was killed on the way to her graduation because she was speeding? What about the parents of the 17yr old who died because his FRIEND was the one driving too fast on a curvy road? What do you say to the parents of FOUR teenagers killed because they were out having a joyride and it drove faster than they could control the car?

ALL of these events occurred right here in my small hometown within the last 3 years.

So your choice is to either say "Dang, that's too bad" or "Gosh, it's a shame there wasn't a way to prevent the teen driving from speeding in the first place".

As I said before, teens ARE going to speed - that's a fact of life. I agree with Mr. Harris that ANY infraction which causes the insurance to go up will be covered by the teen responsible for the ticket. Also, my boys will be driving a "magical car" - one speeding ticket will make it disappear.

And, no, I am NOT being hypocritical. When I got my first speeding ticket, my dad took my license for 3 months and - as MagiK pointed out - that got very old very quickly. Later, when I was in college, he made me pay for the increased insurance when I got my second ticket (but I got to keep the car since I was coming home on the weekends to work).

Since teens don't really accept the fact that THEY could be killed in an instant while speeding (that always happens to somebody ELSE), I have no qualms with employing a method that will let me KNOW for a fact when they ARE speeding. Then, when they get home, we can discuss what options are available to control their urge to speed.

[Chewbacca]

What if all drivers were monitored ands held to the laws with computer precision. All those people that do 60 in a 40 and 75 in a 55 would be screwwed. What everyone was automatically tracked and, because of this tracking, automatically fined for thier driving transgressions. Run a 'yellow-turned-red light' or speed through an intersection
and it's point on your license and a fine in the mail for you.

I wonder if we could track 'failure to yield' and 'to-close driving' with such a system. I despise these poor and dnagerous driving practices in particular.


Track everyone, track us all!!!! After all it's just another brick in the wall...

[Aerich]

All the points you made are well-taken, Cerek, but is this technology the best way to do it? I have nothing against the principle of monitoring teenagers in cars and making them see/feel the consequences of driving irresponsibly. I can think of over 20 spots in my city of about 300 000 where there are flowers at the roadside in remembrance of casualties from vehicle accidents. Most of them young, most of them driving too fast, some of them drunk.

My worry is that some parents will rely on this gadget to such an extent that they ignore the part about teaching their kids how to drive (and showing by example!). Not that the GOOD parents will do that, but some will. The symptom is not the only thing that needs to be treated; the underlying attitudes and problems must be dealt with as well.

Nothing is for certain, and this expensive and unnecessary system will not help a whole lot. How is one to know whether a driver is going 70 mph on a freeway or on a winding mountain road? One is perfectly rational and relatively safe, the other is not. How is one to know whether the driver is driving responsibly or weaving dangerously in and out of traffic?

There are methods to promote responsible driving that are much more effective than this. IMO, they should all be used. Visual images are great. Footage of car crashes and still photos of dead bodies will have an effect. I'm reminded of the consequences of irresponsible driving everytime I see the flowers at the side of the road - a guided tour of those would also put a damper on the desire to speed. Best of all is to have a car accident survivor speak to a young driver. I'll never forget one of the speakers we had when I was in middle school. He was an accident survivor, but he paid a price; he was missing one arm and had gruesome burn scars on his face and head. That sort of thing is guaranteed to force a little contemplation.

I'm not saying that any of these methods are perfect. A drunk and/or reckless teen will get into accidents regardless of the controls and monitoring systems put on them. The point is, if the youth cannot be trusted to the extent of needing a speed-alarm device to ensure a parent's peace of mind, they're better off not driving.

[John D Harris]

ROTFLMAO, Go ahead and track my driving, I'm the type of driver that gives a turn signal at 2:30 A.M. changing lanes while I'm the only driver on the road, I do it because that is what you are supposed to do.

There all ready are camera's at many intersection that will take photo's of cars that run red light and they driver gets a ticket mailed to them.

This "track us/them all" BS is about the funniest logic I've heard in a while. I can't help but, wonder what happened to the "If it saves ONE life" logic that is used to support most actions,(Usually a GOV'T action)? Now what we have here is a PRIVATE action, and action that EACH of us can decide for themselves if they want. Quit barrowing trouble, and just don't use the system! What the "Hale" makes anybody think they have the right to oppose another human making a choice of action that is not illegal? Maybe because they don't like it? Well let's see them apply that standard to themselves, when another human doesn't like what they do!!!!