GPS used to track teens driving?!?!?!

[aleph_null1]

Originally posted by Luvian: False, most often than not, childrens reproduce the actions of their parents.

I'm an idealist by necessity, Luvian: I have to believe that I'm capable of breaking the circle, and that others can too ...

[Luvian]

First of all, Cerek, those kinds of accidents hapen all the time. Most often adults are responsible. This doesn't justify targetting teens only.

Second, and most importantly. This does not monitor their driving, this monitor their EVERY activities. Do you think the gps will only work when the teen is in a car? No. That's what I said, it's an ear tag for teens.

I agree with Chewbacca, I can agree and would like to see a system were every car had a gps build in that would flag speed offenders. And again, only if this was used to detect speed infractions, not some database of our every movements.

Do you think any adult would agree if the government told them "We're going to force you to carry a device that constantly broadcast your location to us at all time, anywhere, because we're effraid you might disrecpect the speed limit. Oh, and we'll still track you outside of your car, and there is tons of way to abuse this system, but never mind that!"

The majority of population would be shocked, even outraged, if something like that was tried on them.

Why is it somehow ok to do it to teens then? Because it's your role as the parent to insure your kid doesn't commit crimes?

Isn't that the role of the government over you, too? Why the double standard then?

And on a personal note Cerek, why do you mistrust your kid so much? Didn't you raise him to know right from wrong? Would he take ridicullous risks? Why wouldn't your dad system work for him too, or have you become some kind of criminal due to bad parenting?

John D Harris, this isn't just a private action without consequence. A system that track every movement of a teen can be used by bad parents to control him even more.

aleph_null1, that's very nice, just make sure that your ideals don't hurt people.

In an ideal world I believe we wouldn't need locks, but I'm not about to push for locks to be banned...

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Luvian: I agree with Chewbacca, I can agree and would like to see a system were every car had a gps build in that would flag speed offenders. And again, only if this was used to detect speed infractions, not some database of our every movements.

I was being a bit cynical and of this I was unclear. The potential for abuse of such a tracking system would actually make me against it, as much as I dislike poor, hasty, unsafe, and dangerous drivers.

Now if folks want to track their teens with such a technology, well I think that's the wrong approach to creating desired behaviors and not the way trust and respect are nurtured or learned. In this regard I beleive we are on the same page.

[Luvian]

I meant that I agree with your suggestion. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Aleph: It's all well and good to be an idealist, but statistics say that the abused grow up to abuse.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Luvian: First of all, Cerek, those kinds of accidents hapen all the time. Most often adults are responsible. This doesn't justify targetting teens only.

WHAT??? Exactly HOW do you arrive at THAT conclusion??? [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Luvian: Second, and most importantly. This does not monitor their driving, this monitor their EVERY activities. Do you think the gps will only work when the teen is in a car? No. That's what I said, it's an ear tag for teens. I agree with Chewbacca, I can agree and would like to see a system were every car had a gps build in that would flag speed offenders. And again, only if this was used to detect speed infractions, not some database of our every movements. Do you think any adult would agree if the government told them "We're going to force you to carry a device that constantly broadcast your location to us at all time, anywhere, because we're effraid you might disrecpect the speed limit. Oh, and we'll still track you outside of your car, and there is tons of way to abuse this system, but never mind that!" The majority of population would be shocked, even outraged, if something like that was tried on them. Why is it somehow ok to do it to teens then? Because it's your role as the parent to insure your kid doesn't commit crimes? Isn't that the role of the government over you, too? Why the double standard then?

MagiK already covered the difference between government monitoring citizens and parents monitoring children.

Originally posted by Luvian: And on a personal note Cerek, why do you mistrust your kid so much? Didn't you raise him to know right from wrong? Would he take ridicullous risks? Why wouldn't your dad system work for him too, or have you become some kind of criminal due to bad parenting?

First of all, deliberately making an argument "personal" is not only poor form, it is also a violation of the TOS. I would expect a longtime member like yourself to know better than that.

Secondly, I never said I mistrust my kid. And your question of whether I am teaching them right from wrong is completely out of line.

As for them taking ridiculous risks, of COURSE they will. That's part of being a teenager.

Finally, if you will re-read my first post, you will see that I agreed this system would be a waste of time. Since it is VOLUNTARY, the only ones that would be using it are those that are going to be compliant anyway. The ONLY thing this system MIGHT accomplish is to act as a deterrent when the teen starts to speed. Then they might think "Uh Oh, I better be careful in case dad is tracking me right now."

One other point to something Illumina (I think) said. Since the system uses a global positioning system, I would think that it could tell whether the teen is driving on a freeway or a winding road. Agreed that it wouldn't be able to tell if the teen was driving recklessly or not, but it should be able to at least tell you what kind of road the teen is on.

[Luvian]

No, a personal attack mean isulting you, not asking a personal question. I would really like to know why you seem to mistrust your kids so much. It seem to me that someone who trust his kids would never even consider such a system.

I see no difference between the government and parents. Every time the government tried something that could remotely be used to collect information, like obligatory fingerprints when entering/leaving the states, there has always been outcry against it, even here in CE.

I never took any risk when I was a teen. I guess I was raised well... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Finally, if you will re-read my first post, you will see that I agreed this system would be a waste of time. Since it is VOLUNTARY, the only ones that would be using it are those that are going to be compliant anyway.

No, those that would be using it would be the teens that are forced by their parents. Parents that might be abusive and using it as another tool of abuse.

[Sir Goulum]

Originally posted by Cerek: As for them taking ridiculous risks, of COURSE they will. That's part of being a teenager.

I'm a teenager, and I've never taken any risks that could endanger my life. Does that make me abnormal or something? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Cerek: The ONLY thing this system MIGHT accomplish is to act as a deterrent when the teen starts to speed. Then they might think "Uh Oh, I better be careful in case dad is tracking me right now."

The way I see it, and from the people I know from my school, the teens who are most likely to speed are the ones who also go to parties and get drunk about every weekend. If they are going to do that and not worry about their parents, I doubt they'll really care if their parents are tracking them or not.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Luvian: No, a personal attack mean isulting you, not asking a personal question. I would really like to know why you seem to mistrust your kids so much. It seem to me that someone who trust his kids would never even consider such a system. I see no difference between the government and parents. Every time the government tried something that could remotely be used to collect information, like obligatory fingerprints when entering/leaving the states, there has always been outcry against it, even here in CE. I never took any risk when I was a teen. I guess I was raised well... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I do not mistrust my kids, yet you keep implying that I do based solely on the fact that I do not denounce this proposed system outright. That does sound like a rather personal attack to me. Especially after I re-directed you to my first post once already where I agreed the system would basically be a waste of time (see below).

In case that isn't clear enough, I never said I would actually USE this system myself. I merely said I CAN see some merit and advantages to it. But somehow, that keeps being interpreted by you as mistrust of my children. My kids aren't even close to driving age anyway, so whether I endorsed the system or not would have NO reflection on whether I trust my kids or not. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Luvian: quote: Originally posted by Cerek: Finally, if you will re-read my first post, you will see that I agreed this system would be a waste of time. Since it is VOLUNTARY, the only ones that would be using it are those that are going to be compliant anyway.

No, those that would be using it would be the teens that are forced by their parents. Parents that might be abusive and using it as another tool of abuse. [/QUOTE]LOLOLOLOL!!! First of all, the parent cannot FORCE the teen to keep their phone turned on - even if they did manage to "force" them to take it in the first place.

Certainly there is potential for abuse of ANY system proposed such as this, but it is laughable to see you and others think that is the ONLY possible outcome of such a system. You immediately cite the worst case scenario (which is theoretical at best) as reason enough to NEVER implement such a system.

And whether you believe it or not, there ARE teens who actually respect their parents enough to use such a system as this willingly. As MagiK (I think) pointed out earlier, the GPS in the phone could also be used to track a teen that had wrecked their car - allowing the ambulance and crew to arrive on the scene much quicker.

For every perceived abuse, there is an offsetting positive the system could accomplish - and vice versa. It is your choice which one you choose to focus on.

[Dave_the_quack]

As a teenager, and a HUMAN, I personally don't like the idea of my freedom being taken away any more than it is. But, to be honest, I doubt if this will come to pass regardless, so I'll save the rant.

My worst fear is that this could become a stepping stone for the monitoring of children everywhere.... not just in the car, and not just teen drivers. Heck, not just teens.