Cigarettes

[Pikachu_PM]

Khazadman,

People react differenly to cigarettes. What worked for you won't work for everybody. I;ve been as long as a week without a cigarette...I wasn't feeling better I was feeling worse.

I was literally a walking zombie, and my work performance was suffering...the minuted I smoked a cigarette I got a little dizzy and lightheaded, then felt 'normal' for the first time in a week.

Could I have 'stuck it out'? Yes. but what good would that do me if I got fired?

Read last weeks TIME magazine...it has a small article in their about quiting smoking. Cold turkey is BY FAR the worst way to quit. I"m down to 2 or 3 cigarettes a day and working my way down.

Oh and it's 'wholey my fault' I'm addicted? Partially, yes...but wholey? If I kept eating butter and sausage for breakfast and died of a heart attack that would be WHOLEY my fault.

Cigarettes are a product manufactured for the sole purpose of addicting someone. I don't get a buzz anymore. I get no joy out of smoking. I smoke because if I don't I can't function properly.

You would admit that crack and a crack dealer is evil wouldn't you? Why are cigarette companies any less so just because their legal? Here's a good question for you...if cigarettes were invented for the very first time this year...tobacoo was JUST discovered...do you think theirs any chance in hell the product would be made legal?

[Night Stalker]

Sorry Pikachu .... not getting any sympathy. Big Tobacco did not force you to start smoking. While their product can be addictive, they did not force you to buy from them. Had they tied you down and put a lit cig into your only breathable air, I could see your plight.

But, it has been known since the late 60s early 70s that smoking is not good for you. Tobacco Cos have been required to put Surgeon's General's Warnings on all packs since 74.

Yes it is entirely your fault for your addiction. It is your lack of will power that got you here. It was you lack of will power that let you start a habit that you knew would be bad for you, knew could be addictive. Yet lack of will (peer pressure, whatever) or poor judgement let you start. Now lack of will (granted, it truely addicted you are handycapped here) won't let you quit. Stop playing the victim. Take responsibility and do something about your situation. Don't blame Big Tobacco for your predicament. They merely supplied you with what you wanted. Now you have ALL that you wanted and more. Continue to lay blame and you'll be a victim the rest of your life. Take responsibility and become the master of your own life.

[Pikachu_PM]

Night Stalker,

Don't talk down to me like I'm some little infant child. I have stated repeatedly that I hold responsability for my actions. My making the decision to smoke doesn't make the cigarette companies any less evil for there manipulation people.

Should I have started smoking? No. Should the cigarette companies supply cigarettes? No.

I am not claiming to be a victim, or demanding anything from the cigarette companies. Simply stating that they are evil.

Anyways, its snowing and I have to go before i get stuck at the office, more in a few days.

[john]

What do you think of all the ads for tobacco, a little brainwashing..association with hot women etc.And the fact that they spice up the tobacco with addicting additives!However the most interesting thing is their subsidized from the gov...War on drugs? Not where the gov and tobacco lobiests(spelling) are involved.

[Larry_OHF]

Night Stalker, you were too heavy in your post, which resulted in Pikachu_PM's response.

Anymore posts like those from anyone and the thread goes to lockdown.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: I suggest reading some of Allen Carrs work. Apparantly, that man is a miracly worker [img]smile.gif[/img]

My best friends owns one of his books and I don't like it. It has some truth but as far as I can judge it's a brainwash program. One of the key directives is "Follow no advice which disagrees with mine"
While it may give you some insight into WHY you smoke I would be careful with following all he says. He also claims that his program works for ANY other drug and goes on comparing cigarettes to heroin, where he claims that the (heroin) withdrawal is something like a "mild cold"

[Memnoch]

My 2c. This all comes down to responsibility, doesn't it. I sympathise with you, Pikachu, but at the end of the day tobacco companies are selling a product that has a lot of warnings associated with it, which has been proven to be addictive and has been proven to be not good for you. I agree that Big Tobacco is probably amoral, selling a product that it knows is addictive and has serious health implications, so they certainly had a part to play in your plight. Call it the evils of capitalism, if you will. [img]smile.gif[/img] But I don't think it's purely the tobacco company's fault that you had a moment of weakness over a lifetime of good decisions and decided to have a smoke because in this day and age everyone knows that cigs are bad for you. Cigarettes are dangerous. John Grisham wrote about it in the Runaway Jury. Russell Crowe and Al Pacino warned us about it in the movie The Insider. The words "SMOKING KILLS" is written on the packet of each cigarette (in Australia anyway).

Everyone knows the risk. It's ingrained in our society today. I think a mature adult's decision to smoke is made with both eyes open. If you need something to blame then blame the circumstances that caused you the moment of weakness.

Maybe in the 60s when tobacco advertising was in full swing and Big Tobacco was denying the bad effects of nicotine and glamourising it, or maybe if you were 70 years old and started smoking fifty years ago, then blaming the cig companies would be reasonable and valid - but I would find it difficult to believe that in this day and age someone could partake of something that everyone knows is clearly addictive and then blame the company that made it for getting hooked, especially if you're now 23 years old and should be well aware of the massive risk. Bit like playing Russian Roulette, I'd say. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I don't mean to sound so opinionated, I'm just a strong believer in mature adults taking responsibility for their own actions.

Just so people know where I'm coming from; I smoke about 5 sticks a day, 4mg tar (ultralights). I went into it both eyes open, clearly aware of the ramifications. I might go through a week where I smoke 1 stick a day, then I might go through a weekend where I'll smoke a pack. I don't really mind it at this point in time, I don't crave it except when I'm out drinking or dancing. But I know that it was because of me that I started, and it will be up to me to stop. I'll get around to that eventually, once I stop going out. I don't really smoke when I'm at home.

As for you...have you seen a doctor about the head pains, disconnection, etc? Have you tried gum, patches, etc? Half a pack a day doesn't seem like much, considering you've been smoking for less than a year. If you're smoking socially you could be psychologically addicted to it as well. Have you tried therapy?

Good luck with it, mate. Hope you get over it. Have faith in yourself. And try not to bite the heads off of people who disagree with you. They're just trying to help you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-26-2004, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[pritchke]

Memnoch, by law what is considered an adult:
The age we vote
The age we can get a drivers license
The age were we can have sex as consenting adults
The age we are allowed to buy alcohol
The age we can buy smokes

If someone picked up smoking before than could it be that they are not considered an adult and the companies are partially responsible for placing addictive substances in there products, the person who sold the underage person the smokes are partially responsible, as well the parents may be partially responsible for not knowing what their kids are up to, and society is partially responsible for letting the governments and big companies away with it. While about 80% can be blamed on the individual, there are a bunch of other factors involved that may lead a person to a yes or no choice and turning into a chimney. Bottom line is he made a mistake and is paying for it dearly and the people who made the product are doing nothing to help.

Night Stalker while I feel partially wrong did offer some good advice. "Take responsibility and do something about your situation. Don't blame anyone else for your predicament. Continue to lay blame and you'll be a victim the rest of your life. Take responsibility and become the master of your own life."

And asking for advice is the first step in becoming the master.




[ 01-26-2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by pritchke: Memnoch, by law what is considered an adult: The age we vote The age we can get a drivers license The age were we can have sex as consenting adults The age we are allowed to buy alcohol The age we can buy smokes If someone picked up smoking before than could it be that they are not considered an adult and the companies are partially responsible for placing addictive substances in there products, the person who sold the underage person the smokes are partially responsible, as well the parents may be partially responsible for not knowing what their kids are up to, and society is partially responsible for letting the governments and big companies away with it. While about 80% can be blamed on the individual, there are a bunch of other factors involved that may lead a person to a yes or no choice and turning into a chimney. Bottom line is he made a mistake and is paying for it dearly and the people who made the product are doing nothing to help.

G'day mate. [img]smile.gif[/img] Nobody is saying that the cig companies are totally free of blame, particularly in the past when their constant denials of addiction, massive advertising budgets and questionable distribution practices ensured millions of people got addicted to their products back in the 40s through to about the 80s, which was when people and governments finally began to wise up. People who started back then are completely entitled to blame Big Tobacco for "luring" them into a habit that is very difficult to break. Likewise, people in third world countries where the dangers of cigarette smoking are not clearly communicated or widely known can also place a greater measure of blame on Phillip Morris et al for selling them a product without making the implications of using such product crystal clear.

But I believe that people who live in most developed nations (eg the US, Australia, Europe, etc) where is already massive negative publicity and clear warnings about the dangers of taking up cigarette smoking need to take a greater share of accountability if they decide to start up anyway, irrespective of their personal circumstances. I believe that in this day and age and in this type of society the pendulum of accountability has well and truly swung towards the users - those who are starting now. And to answer your question about underage smoking, my opinion is that those who distribute the product to underage kids would be more to blame than the tobacco companies themselves - again in this day and in a developed society.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not defending Big Tobacco. I guess what I'm saying is that if you know the devil's asked you for a dance, and you know that it's the devil, and that the devil is bad, and you decide to dance anyway, and he drags you down to hell, then it's not solely the devil's fault you're where you are. [img]smile.gif[/img]

This is the reason I don't like talking about blame, who's fault it is, etc. - at the end of the day it's an unfortunate situation and what's important is how to emerge from it positively. It's just a personal thing with me - I'm a strong believer in personal accountability where it's due and where it's warranted. That's just a character trait in me, I guess. [img]smile.gif[/img]

You are right in that advice is very important - and to me, support is just as important. It's hard to quit if people you go out with are smoking all around you. You may need to make some drastic short term lifestyle changes to maximise your chances of kicking it.

Good luck with it anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[machinehead]

I agree with Memnoch here. I started smoking at the age of 25 knowing it was addictive and would affect my health. I just did not give a damn then so I only have myself to blame. Over the years I've quit twice, once for a year and the other time for 4 months. I'm going to try again this time using the patch instead of going cold turkey. 3 packs of Kools a day is getting to be awfully expensive.