armor spells

[Faceman]

I was wondering if they (Armor, Spirit armor) only set your common AC to the respective values or if they add the boni for Scale/Plate mail too (against certain weapon types)

On a sidenote (may be BGT mod related): I was noticing something odd about the Invoker kit while trying to scribe scrolls with Dynaheir and tested it on a generic self-created Invoker with the same results. They could not write Armor/Spirit Armor to spellbook because "your spellschool...". Yet they can CAST it and rightfully so as they are "Conjuration" spells and their opposite school would be "Enchantment". They can cast AND write other Conjuration spells (e.g. Monster Summoning I, Summon Fire Elemental) just fine. Now can anybody please confirm if this is a genuine (or even intended) SoA issue. If not I'm off to TeamBG for a bug report

[Faceman]

come on... can anybody help me out here?
Just start a new game with an invoker cheat in an armor scroll and tell me if you can scribe it or not...pretty please

[teardropmina]

Originally posted by Faceman: On a sidenote (may be BGT mod related): I was noticing something odd about the Invoker kit while trying to scribe scrolls with Dynaheir and tested it on a generic self-created Invoker with the same results. They could not write Armor/Spirit Armor to spellbook because "your spellschool...". Yet they can CAST it and rightfully so as they are "Conjuration" spells and their opposite school would be "Enchantment". They can cast AND write other Conjuration spells (e.g. Monster Summoning I, Summon Fire Elemental) just fine. Now can anybody please confirm if this is a genuine (or even intended) SoA issue. If not I'm off to TeamBG for a bug report

hmmm...sorry Faceman, I don't quite understand your question.

IIRC, in BG, Dynaheir, as an invoker can CAST all spells, but cannot write certain spells (which invlove spellschool issue) into her spellbook. She can cast monster summoning, but she cannot write it. In SoA, as I recall, if there's spellschool conflict, a specialized mage cannot cast nor write the spells in conflict. this might be common knowledge (or my false conception), but it's all I know now [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[ 09-11-2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: teardropmina ]

[Indemaijinj]

Besides the nutjobs responsible for the creation of this game apparantly thought the invoker so powerful that it warranted TWO opposition schools.

The invokers can neither cast enchantments nor conjurations making it one of the less attractive specialist choices.

[Morgeruat]

actually if you've played BG1 you should have noticed that all of the specialist mages (except diviner) have at least 2 opposition schools (invocation and necromancy for illusionists), and by the rules of AD&D 2nd ed


Specialist School Race Opposition School(s)

Abjurer Abjuration H Alteration & Illusion
Conjurer Conj./Summ. H, 1/2 E Gr. Divin. & Invocation
Diviner Gr.Divin. H, 1/2 E, E Conj./Summ.
Enchanter Ench./Charm H, 1/2 E, E Invoc./Evoc. & Necromancy
Illusionist Illusion H,G Necr., Invoc./Evoc., Abjur.
Invoker Invoc./Evoc. H Ench./Chann & Conj./Summ.
Necromancer Necromancy H Illusion & Ench./Charm
Transmuter Alteration H, 1/2 E Abjuration & Necromancy

[Faceman]

Okay. Getting a bit more clear.

My test-Invoker
CAN
scribe conjuration spells (like Monster Summoning)
cast conjuration spells (like Monster Summoning)
cast Armor and Spirit armor
cast/scribe any other spell

CANNOT
scribe enchantment spells
cast enchantment spells
scribe Armor and Spirit Armor

This is what I'm curious about. Why can't these two spells (armor/spirit armor) be scribed when they CAN be cast? And why is this a spellschool issue when other spells of the same school can be cast AND scribed?

So if somebody could verify that it's not just my problem I would be thankful.

[Faceman]

Update on some more testing and weird results.

my Invoker

CANNOT
scribe Ghost Armor (Conjuration/Summoning)
scribe Armor (Conjuration)
scribe or cast Charm (Enchantment/Charm) which is also marked with red background

however he

CAN
cast Ghost Armor (Conjuration/Summoning) - scroll not marked red
cast Armor (Conjuration) - scroll not marked red
cast&scribe Grease (Conjuration)
cast&scribe Monster Summoning (Conjuration/Summoning)
cast&scribe Spirit Armor (Necromancy)
and cast&scribe Shield (Evocation [img]graemlins/doh.gif[/img] )

A tested Enchanter who according to Morgeruats table should have problems with Necromancy could however cast&scribe Spirit Armor (Necromancy)

So this must be somehow restricted to the Invoker and the armor spells [img]graemlins/confused2.gif[/img]
Also if there were really two effectively opposite spell schools Edwin for example could not cast Magic Missile (which we all know he can)

So basically [img]graemlins/confused2.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/confused2.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/confused2.gif[/img]

[ 09-11-2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

[Indemaijinj]

As I said before the invokers in Baldur's Gate are the only specialists with two opposition schools. A bit weird, but this is the way it is. The lack of conjuration spells is a serious setback for the invokers.
This is different from the Player's Handbook where all specialists, besides the diviner had two opposition schools.

Here's my powergamer's top eight over the specialists. Please correct me if I am wrong.

1. Conjurer - Most only count the lack of divination as a minor nuisance. True Sight is the only spell of any matter in this school.

2. Necromancer - The lack of Project Image cheese is what hinders this specialist most. Still, they'll get Simulacrum.

3. Illusionist - You miss out some of the more high-profile attack spells and an awesome summon. Still there is nothing really crippling here.

4. Invoker - Losing enchantment might might not be the worst sting, but losing conjuration too is aggravating.

5. Enchanter - The lack of P'n'P classics such as Fireball and Lightning Bolt might be what people first think of, but it is the lack of triggers, sequencers and contingencies that makes serious wizards give this class a wide berth. Losing Mordenkainen's Sword is not good either.

6. Diviner - Sure the specialisation school is undeniably the worst excuse for a spell school in the BG series and sure the lack of conjuration adds injury to the insult, but still I believe you can find those who are worse off.

7. Transmuter - The lack of spell-protections make battles that would be all cushy a pure thriller for the transmuter. A pick for those who wants a date with danger, but most players prefer a bit more safety.

8. Abjurer - Not having spell protections is one thing. Not having spell protection removal is another. Sure you'll still have Dispel Magic, but that is not safe bet in a high-level mage duel.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Eh? Abjurers have Spell Protections Removers too. In fact... they specialise in them. ALL Counterspells belong to the Abjuration school except Ruby Ray of Reversal.

Breach, Pierce Shield, Pierce Magic, etc... are all Abjuration spells. This is another reason why Transmuters are quite shafted.

As for Faceman's issues. Looks like they forgot to convert the BG1 rules to the BG2 ones when it comes to Specialist Mages. Just give them a bug report.

[Dundee Slaytern]

ADD] The opposition school for Abjurers is Alteration if I am not mistaken. This means no Stoneskins, Polymorph Self/Others, Teleport Field, Ruby Ray of Reversal, etc... ...