GPS used to track teens driving?!?!?!

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Spelca: If it's about teens driving fast, then why don't they just attach this thing to a car? Why a cell-phone? Because that way it's obviously designed to track the teens, and not just to check their driving. [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img]

Attaching it to the car would also "track teens" since they would presumably be driving the car wherever they went. Unless, of course, they deliberately did NOT want their parents to know where they were...so they got into a friends' car.

I am amused at all the "horror" being expressed that this will be used to "track teens". The bottom line is that parents have every right (and sometimes even an obligation) to know where there teens are.

And, just to turn all this nay-saying logic around, if the teens aren't doing anything wrong - then why would they be worried about their parents knowing where they are?

[Luvian]

The argument that you need to have had childrens to know how to raise any is flawed.

First of all, we have all been childrens at one point, so we all experienced that dynamic. I know a couple mistakes my parents did with me and my brother that I don't intend to reproduce.

Being a good parent is something you learn. Most of it from books and advices, as opposed to self discovery. Most parents that made efforts on learning how to become a good parent did a lot better than those that just acted on the moment. I've seen lots of bad example, and I know what not to do.

Certain qualities help being a good parent. For example, someone that's patient and mature will have an easier time, as compared to an impulsive selfish drunkard.

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Luvian: Being a good parent is something you learn. Most of it from books and advices, as opposed to self discovery. Most parents that made efforts on learning how to become a good parent did a lot better than those that just acted on the moment. I've seen lots of bad example, and I know what not to do.

Can you learn to drive from 'books and advice'? can you learn to play sport from 'books and advice'? Can you learn how to program from 'books and advice'? In all of these things, while you can learn with these things, you won't learn the techniques of doing it well. Why should parenting be any different?
I do not know first-hand, but I imagine parenting is learned like most things: by small amounts of off-hand advice (through ordinary conversation), and through real experience.
We have all experienced the dynamic of being children, yes. But by your logic, I know what it is like to be a child, and so suddenly I also know what it is like to be a parent? No.

Those people who have children will know better to your or I what it is to be a 'good parent'. Parents have an implicit duty to look after their children - and that is what this issue is about, To answer the question 'should parents be aloud to track their children', thing about this question: is a parent right to let their children break the road rules when something can be done about it?

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Luvian: The argument that you need to have had childrens to know how to raise any is flawed. First of all, we have all been childrens at one point, so we all experienced that dynamic. I know a couple mistakes my parents did with me and my brother that I don't intend to reproduce. Being a good parent is something you learn. Most of it from books and advices, as opposed to self discovery. Most parents that made efforts on learning how to become a good parent did a lot better than those that just acted on the moment. I've seen lots of bad example, and I know what not to do. Certain qualities help being a good parent. For example, someone that's patient and mature will have an easier time, as compared to an impulsive selfish drunkard.

Agreed certain quailties are needed to be a good parent, in addition to the ones listed you need to be firm, fair, know when to be a disilplinarian(sp?), when to let stuff slide, when not to let it slide, when to say I got your back and when to say sorry but you are on your own if that is the course you choose.When to praise, when to say yes and when to say no, when to explain why, and when to say because I said so. When to tell them this is your house and it ain't going to happen here, and when to say this is their home and they are always safe/accepted here. When to tell them they are acting like a childish/ selfish/ self centered/ self important, and when they are acting mature/ selfless/ caring of others/ putting others first. You need to know when to treat them alike and when not too. Each child in a family is differant and have their own personality(sp?)maturity level (which does not equal age!), treating them acording to their personality. Treating children alike is not the same a loving them alike. I LOVE both our daughters equal, but do to their differant personalities One daughter learns from explaining, the other even after explaining she still needs to run into the wall to learn. Each and everyone of us learn from differant things, some learn easily, some learn the hard way.

Now from My personal experiance, the only people that know less about children then those that have NO children are child psycologists, you know the book folks

[ 12-21-2004, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

Originally posted by Luvian: The argument that you need to have had childrens to know how to raise any is flawed. First of all, we have all been childrens at one point, so we all experienced that dynamic. I know a couple mistakes my parents did with me and my brother that I don't intend to reproduce. I am not deliberately trying to be argumentative here but I see your position as the flawed one.....one has no idea about the realities of a situation untill one has experienced the realities...whether it is combat or raising kids (very similar in my opinion) Being a good parent is something you learn. Most of it from books and advices, as opposed to self discovery. Most parents that made efforts on learning how to become a good parent did a lot better than those that just acted on the moment. I've seen lots of bad example, and I know what not to do. Errrm I never read a single book about parenting....partly because I think most of the authors are quacks and far too many of them have never once raised a child. We learn how to parent at first from our parents...by observation.....but what I found...and milage may vary....once you get into the "drivers seat" so to speak...your whole perspective and view of things you THOUGHT you knew can change....pluss there is some trial and error involved Certain qualities help being a good parent. For example, someone that's patient and mature will have an easier time, as compared to an impulsive selfish drunkard. On this we can agree!

LennonCook I think had some great examples...you explained it well. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Spelca]

Well, yes, sure, but I thought this device was meant to be used for parents to check how their teens were driving, and not where they are all the time. So, basically, they're saying it's for safe driving, but it's really for tracking the teens? [img]smile.gif[/img] Or how will they make sure the two things won't be confused?

Maybe parents should get that too, to show their children how a responsible driver drives. Then the teens will see it's possible to drive without speeding.

[Spelca]

Originally posted by Cerek: I am amused at all the "horror" being expressed that this will be used to "track teens". The bottom line is that parents have every right (and sometimes even an obligation) to know where there teens are. And, just to turn all this nay-saying logic around, if the teens aren't doing anything wrong - then why would they be worried about their parents knowing where they are?

There's a thing called privacy, and teens have some right to it. [img]tongue.gif[/img] If my mum tried to put this in my mobile phone (and I was a really good girl as a teen), I'd be VERY angry and would do things on purpose.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Spelca: quote: Originally posted by Cerek: I am amused at all the "horror" being expressed that this will be used to "track teens". The bottom line is that parents have every right (and sometimes even an obligation) to know where there teens are. And, just to turn all this nay-saying logic around, if the teens aren't doing anything wrong - then why would they be worried about their parents knowing where they are?

There's a thing called privacy, and teens have some right to it. [img]tongue.gif[/img] If my mum tried to put this in my mobile phone (and I was a really good girl as a teen), I'd be VERY angry and would do things on purpose. [/QUOTE]This is not an invasion of privacy. It is not being used to "track teens" at all - that is just a worst case scenario that was used by critics on Page 1 and has since come to be believed as fact. As pointed out by MagiK a few posts earlier, the reality is that the gps can only be used for 911 calls currently. And, as MagiK also pointed out, some teens have no problem with the gps being in their phone.

Luvian - I'm afraid that - in this case - all the others are right and you are wrong. There is a WORLD of difference between being a child and being the parent. I can tell you for a fact that your perspective WILL change when it is the safety or discipline of YOUR child that is in question. Also, as mentioned earlier, we tend to repeat the parenting style we grew up with rather than break away from it. I've caught myself on more than one occasion doing some of the same things MY dad did to me, and that I swore I would never with my own kids. The same is true for my wife. She has told me some of the things her mom did and I see some of the same behavior in her. It isn't anywhere close to the same degree that her mother exhibited, but it is there nonetheless.

As for reading books, Dr. Spock is the foremost acknowledged author of how to raise a child. He wrote books back in the 70's that completely changed the way parents treated their children. He said we should no longer "punish" children. Instead, we should allow them to "express themselves" and encourage their individuality. Guess what? Just a couple of years ago, Dr. Spock came out and publicly stated that he had been WRONG!!! Gee, thanks Doc, but it's a little late for that now.

The fact is that there is NO better method of teaching than real life and experience. Certainly you can read books and get advice from friends and family. My wife and I use a variety of disciplinary measures on our children and we are constantly discussing whether the methods are being effective or not. And if not, we discuss what we need to do differently. What works with one does not necessarily work with the other two.

Originally posted by Spelca: quote: Originally posted by Cerek: I am amused at all the "horror" being expressed that this will be used to "track teens". The bottom line is that parents have every right (and sometimes even an obligation) to know where there teens are. And, just to turn all this nay-saying logic around, if the teens aren't doing anything wrong - then why would they be worried about their parents knowing where they are?

There's a thing called privacy, and teens have some right to it. [img]tongue.gif[/img] If my mum tried to put this in my mobile phone (and I was a really good girl as a teen), I'd be VERY angry and would do things on purpose. [/QUOTE]My teen and pre-teen are both rather blase about it. They don't care if I know where they are....because before they go out....They HAVE to tell me where they will be and how I can reach them [img]smile.gif[/img] I must be a horrible daddy making my kids follow my rules while they live in my house


Seriously in our discussions on this subject they were flummoxed that anyone would make THIS a problem....in their eyes, just being permitted to be out and about with out me tagging along is a welcome thing....that and they are honest kids and don't care if I use Ronald Reagan's philosophy of "Trust but Verify" on their where abouts.