Bard song question

SpongeBobTheDestoyer · 09-17-2003, 01:01 AM

Under a Blade's disadvantages it says bard song does not become better with levels. For a Skald it has the levels at which it does improve. For the Jester it doesn't say either one, does anyone know if a Jester's song improves with levels or stays the same? And what kind of song does just a plain bard get?

Olorin · 09-17-2003, 01:19 AM

I don't know all the details, but the Jester's song starts by having a chance to confuse enemies. At higher levels, the confusion effect is replaced by others--can't remember what ones.

The documentation on the bards is definitely lacking in the manual and in-game descriptions.

Zarr · 09-17-2003, 07:26 AM

I don't think the jesters bard song changes at all until you get the HLA(TOB). I think it always just confuses them no matter what level you are. Olorin's right the manuel isn't exactly overflowing with information.

ADD:Oh and the plain bards song raises morale and gives luck. It improves with levels.

[ 09-17-2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Zarr ]

JrKASperov · 09-17-2003, 09:33 AM

Improved jester song also knocks enemies unconscious if they fail their saves...

SixOfSpades · 09-18-2003, 01:49 AM

The following info is courtesy of the Rogue Rebalancing MOD. It's certainly possible that the MOD changes the various Songs' effects, but whether they change or not, at least Rogue Rebalancing lets you know what the songs DO.

Bard:
Lvl 1: Allies get -1 THAC0 and -1 Save vs. Spells
Lvl 10: -1 THAC0 and -1 to all Saves
Lvl 20: -2 THAC0 and -2 to all Saves

Blade:
Lvl 1: Allies get -1 THAC0 and -1 Save vs. Spells
(never improves, Blades cannot choose Enhanced Bard Song with Rogue Rebalancing installed, but they get a Weapons Display ability to approximate a Bard Song)

Jester:
Lvl 1: All enemies within Jester's sight range must Save vs. Spells with -4 bonus or be Confused
Lvl 15: Enemies must make another Save or be Slowed
Lvl 20: Enemies must make another Save or be Stunned
(The documentation is a little bit hazy here: It does not say if enemies get a bonus to their Saves vs. Slow or Stun, nor does it say if the Stun is added to the Song's effects, or if it simply replaces the Slow.)

Skald:
Lvl 1: Allies get -2 THAC0, +2 damage and -2 AC
Lvl 15: -4 THAC0, +4 damage and -4 AC, immune to Fear
Lvl 20: -4 THAC0, +4 damage and -4 AC, immune to Fear, Stun and Confusion

Enhanced Bard Song:
Bard gets -10 AC and +10% Magic Resistance
Allies get -4 AC, +5% MR, -4 THAC0, +4 damage, and immunity to Fear, Stun, Confusion, & Normal weapons

[ 09-18-2003, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

SpongeBobTheDestoyer · 09-18-2003, 01:51 AM

I have a Jester in my party right now and the only thing she seems to add to the party is gold. She is a good pickpocket and saves us a lot of money being able to identify everything. Her confusion song takes a back seat to casting chaos with my mage though, the only benefit being that she can sing it at will. Should I drop her and pick up H'aer Dalis? Blades seem a little more combat capable but I don't really know since I haven't really used any bards much.

Edit - Thanks Six, I was posting this while you put that one up. The Jester looks pretty good according to that and the bard HLA looks like a big help. I think I will go ahead a maybe continue with the Jester once I get that mod.

[ 09-18-2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: SpongeBobTheDestoyer ]

SixOfSpades · 09-18-2003, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpongeBobTheDestoyer:
I think I will go ahead a maybe continue with the Jester once I get that mod.

The Rogue Rebalancing MOD is, in my experience at least, the "Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" of the BG2 MODs. It does a whole lot of really good stuff; the Thief and Bard classes and kits are now a little bit more refined than they were before, and there are many more enchanted Bucklers available now......but if you think that you might want to work for Bodhi ever again, do NOT install Rogue Rebalancing.

SpongeBobTheDestoyer · 09-18-2003, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SixOfSpades:
......but if you think that you might want to work for Bodhi ever again, do NOT install Rogue Rebalancing.

LOL, I take it Aran and co. are a bit tougher.

SixOfSpades · 09-18-2003, 02:43 AM

Now that I re-visit aVENGER's website ( http://www.gamesector.co.yu/avenger/ ), I see that "Rogue Rebalancing" and "Shadow Thief Improvements" are in fact two wholly separate components.

About RR, I have nothing but good things to say--except for some very minor issues with the Short Sword of Backstabbing.

About STI, however.....

Start with Improved Ilyich.
Instead of appearing singly, the Shadow Thieves now spawn in groups of four.
Most of them have stats roughly equal to the best you've ever rolled.
Their use of illegal and/or undroppable items is quite common.
They know precisely where your PC is at all times.
Some of them use a form of Invisibility that neither True Sight nor a Thief's Detect Illusions can dispel.
Ilyich and his gang use the Mislead cheese.
You cannot Rest in the area.
You cannot leave the area until Ilyich is dead.

THAT'S Shadow Thief Improvements.

[ 09-18-2003, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

JrKASperov · 09-18-2003, 09:39 AM

How is one supposed to win that?

09-17-2003, 01:01 AM	#1
SpongeBobTheDestoyer Avatar Join Date: August 2, 2002 Location: St. Louis Age: 49 Posts: 529	Under a Blade's disadvantages it says bard song does not become better with levels. For a Skald it has the levels at which it does improve. For the Jester it doesn't say either one, does anyone know if a Jester's song improves with levels or stays the same? And what kind of song does just a plain bard get? __________________ [img]\"http://membres.lycos.fr/th8or/JubeiSigSig.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

09-17-2003, 01:19 AM	#2
Olorin Avatar Join Date: May 27, 2002 Location: Boulder, CO Age: 47 Posts: 544	I don't know all the details, but the Jester's song starts by having a chance to confuse enemies. At higher levels, the confusion effect is replaced by others--can't remember what ones. The documentation on the bards is definitely lacking in the manual and in-game descriptions. __________________ "Many are my names in many countries. Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkun to the Dwarves; Olorin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incanus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not" --The Two Towers

09-17-2003, 07:26 AM	#3
Zarr Symbol of Cyric Join Date: June 19, 2002 Location: Northern Ireland Age: 40 Posts: 1,330	I don't think the jesters bard song changes at all until you get the HLA(TOB). I think it always just confuses them no matter what level you are. Olorin's right the manuel isn't exactly overflowing with information. ADD:Oh and the plain bards song raises morale and gives luck. It improves with levels. [ 09-17-2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Zarr ] __________________ Minsc - \"Don\'t ask questions better left to aged sages\"<br /><br />\"You must gather your party before venturing forth\". BANG shoots him dead

09-17-2003, 09:33 AM	#4
JrKASperov Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: July 16, 2003 Location: Wa\'eni\'n Age: 38 Posts: 1,701	Improved jester song also knocks enemies unconscious if they fail their saves... __________________ God is in the rain.

09-18-2003, 01:49 AM	#5
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 46 Posts: 6,901	The following info is courtesy of the Rogue Rebalancing MOD. It's certainly possible that the MOD changes the various Songs' effects, but whether they change or not, at least Rogue Rebalancing lets you know what the songs DO. Bard: Lvl 1: Allies get -1 THAC0 and -1 Save vs. Spells Lvl 10: -1 THAC0 and -1 to all Saves Lvl 20: -2 THAC0 and -2 to all Saves Blade: Lvl 1: Allies get -1 THAC0 and -1 Save vs. Spells (never improves, Blades cannot choose Enhanced Bard Song with Rogue Rebalancing installed, but they get a Weapons Display ability to approximate a Bard Song) Jester: Lvl 1: All enemies within Jester's sight range must Save vs. Spells with -4 bonus or be Confused Lvl 15: Enemies must make another Save or be Slowed Lvl 20: Enemies must make another Save or be Stunned (The documentation is a little bit hazy here: It does not say if enemies get a bonus to their Saves vs. Slow or Stun, nor does it say if the Stun is added to the Song's effects, or if it simply replaces the Slow.) Skald: Lvl 1: Allies get -2 THAC0, +2 damage and -2 AC Lvl 15: -4 THAC0, +4 damage and -4 AC, immune to Fear Lvl 20: -4 THAC0, +4 damage and -4 AC, immune to Fear, Stun and Confusion Enhanced Bard Song: Bard gets -10 AC and +10% Magic Resistance Allies get -4 AC, +5% MR, -4 THAC0, +4 damage, and immunity to Fear, Stun, Confusion, & Normal weapons [ 09-18-2003, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ] __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

09-18-2003, 01:51 AM	#6
SpongeBobTheDestoyer Avatar Join Date: August 2, 2002 Location: St. Louis Age: 49 Posts: 529	I have a Jester in my party right now and the only thing she seems to add to the party is gold. She is a good pickpocket and saves us a lot of money being able to identify everything. Her confusion song takes a back seat to casting chaos with my mage though, the only benefit being that she can sing it at will. Should I drop her and pick up H'aer Dalis? Blades seem a little more combat capable but I don't really know since I haven't really used any bards much. Edit - Thanks Six, I was posting this while you put that one up. The Jester looks pretty good according to that and the bard HLA looks like a big help. I think I will go ahead a maybe continue with the Jester once I get that mod. [ 09-18-2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: SpongeBobTheDestoyer ] __________________ [img]\"http://membres.lycos.fr/th8or/JubeiSigSig.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

09-18-2003, 02:43 AM	#9
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 46 Posts: 6,901	Now that I re-visit aVENGER's website ( http://www.gamesector.co.yu/avenger/ ), I see that "Rogue Rebalancing" and "Shadow Thief Improvements" are in fact two wholly separate components. About RR, I have nothing but good things to say--except for some very minor issues with the Short Sword of Backstabbing. About STI, however..... Start with Improved Ilyich. Instead of appearing singly, the Shadow Thieves now spawn in groups of four. Most of them have stats roughly equal to the best you've ever rolled. Their use of illegal and/or undroppable items is quite common. They know precisely where your PC is at all times. Some of them use a form of Invisibility that neither True Sight nor a Thief's Detect Illusions can dispel. Ilyich and his gang use the Mislead cheese. You cannot Rest in the area. You cannot leave the area until Ilyich is dead. THAT'S Shadow Thief Improvements. [ 09-18-2003, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ] __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

09-18-2003, 09:39 AM	#10
JrKASperov Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: July 16, 2003 Location: Wa\'eni\'n Age: 38 Posts: 1,701	How is one supposed to win that? __________________ God is in the rain.

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