Thac0

Devv · 08-20-2003, 07:46 PM

Umm, this is a silly question perhaps, but I was intrested on what determines Thac0 for smaller weapons like daggers and short swords. It says int he book that short swords are ideal for thieves, but I don't quite see how they're better than a katana. Unless of course Thac0 is determined by dexterity for these piercing weapons as it is for bow.

Can anybody set me straight here? Is Thac0 always on stregth for melee weapons and is there any advantage of using smaller ones for thieves?

True_Moose · 08-20-2003, 08:01 PM

No, except that most of the weapons thieves can get proficient in are smaller. There really is no special advantage, except that there are a couple of smaller blades that work perfectly in conjunction with a rogue.

SixOfSpades · 08-20-2003, 08:22 PM

First off: WELCOME TO IRONWORKS, Devv!!! [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

The rule that smaller weapons are (generally) better for thieves is due to one thing: Speed Factor. Smaller weapons, such as Short Swords, Clubs and Daggers, have much lower Speed Factors than Long Swords and Quarterstaves. This means that (on a successful hit) they will actually strike the enemy much sooner, after you tell your guy to Attack. And when you're Backstabbing someone, having a low Speed Factor is key: As soon as you come out of Stealth, you've only got a few seconds before you become visible, so you don't want to stick around waiting for your weapon with an impossibly slow Speed Factor to hit its target.

This whole argument, of course, gets shot to hell as soon as Katanas--especially highly enchanted Katanas--enter the picture. What's the point of using some stupid Dagger when you can Backstab with a Katana that does 1D10 damage with a Speed Factor of 0???

I, personally, have never understood why enchanted weapons have lower Speed Factors than their unenchanted brethren.

Pyrenk · 08-21-2003, 01:58 AM

Because magic is elegant and graceful!

*ahem*

I'd guess that the magic changes the weapon's quality; normally, the weapon is a crude piece of metal. When it is enhanced with magic, it becomes more powerful, often lighter, and therefore faster.

I can't seem to explain it correctly, but you should understand the point.

LennonCook · 08-21-2003, 03:29 AM

If the weapon is enchanted such that it can do extra damage, the speedfactor and THAC0 bonus of the weapon should not be affected IMO. If it is unenchanted but does more damage, then it should suffer a penalty to speed factor - more metal has been lumped on to achieve the extra damage, and so it would be heavier and thus harder to swing. If it is enchanted such that it guides itself to the target, it should grant a THAC0 bonus, but the damage and speed factor should not be affected. If it has a higher speed factor, it's damage should, if anything, be made less.

Devv · 08-21-2003, 07:35 AM

Thanks for the replies and thanks for your welcome six of spades

I checked out your cool site. Loads of work done on that and it's very informative and good to read [img]smile.gif[/img]

You mention how you made that mage/thief where you altered elves lowest charisma levels to make him ugly. In my game I have altered all the stats for the existing races permanently. I felt Elves should have 20 dex and 19 wisdom aswell as 19 int, but I lowered their con to 16 and str to 17.

08-20-2003, 08:01 PM	#2
True_Moose Gold Dragon Join Date: June 18, 2002 Location: Wolfville, NS / Calgary, AB Age: 36 Posts: 2,563	No, except that most of the weapons thieves can get proficient in are smaller. There really is no special advantage, except that there are a couple of smaller blades that work perfectly in conjunction with a rogue. __________________ [img]\"http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/true_moose/Siggy.jpg\" alt=\" - \" />

08-20-2003, 08:22 PM	#3
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 46 Posts: 6,901	First off: WELCOME TO IRONWORKS, Devv!!! [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] The rule that smaller weapons are (generally) better for thieves is due to one thing: Speed Factor. Smaller weapons, such as Short Swords, Clubs and Daggers, have much lower Speed Factors than Long Swords and Quarterstaves. This means that (on a successful hit) they will actually strike the enemy much sooner, after you tell your guy to Attack. And when you're Backstabbing someone, having a low Speed Factor is key: As soon as you come out of Stealth, you've only got a few seconds before you become visible, so you don't want to stick around waiting for your weapon with an impossibly slow Speed Factor to hit its target. This whole argument, of course, gets shot to hell as soon as Katanas--especially highly enchanted Katanas--enter the picture. What's the point of using some stupid Dagger when you can Backstab with a Katana that does 1D10 damage with a Speed Factor of 0??? I, personally, have never understood why enchanted weapons have lower Speed Factors than their unenchanted brethren. __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

08-21-2003, 01:58 AM	#4
Pyrenk Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: Old Bethpage, Long Island Age: 35 Posts: 1,156	Because magic is elegant and graceful! ahem I'd guess that the magic changes the weapon's quality; normally, the weapon is a crude piece of metal. When it is enhanced with magic, it becomes more powerful, often lighter, and therefore faster. I can't seem to explain it correctly, but you should understand the point. __________________

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08-20-2003, 07:46 PM	#1
Devv The Magister Join Date: August 19, 2003 Location: Amn, city of coin Age: 41 Posts: 138	Umm, this is a silly question perhaps, but I was intrested on what determines Thac0 for smaller weapons like daggers and short swords. It says int he book that short swords are ideal for thieves, but I don't quite see how they're better than a katana. Unless of course Thac0 is determined by dexterity for these piercing weapons as it is for bow. Can anybody set me straight here? Is Thac0 always on stregth for melee weapons and is there any advantage of using smaller ones for thieves?

08-21-2003, 03:29 AM	#5
LennonCook Jack Burton Join Date: November 10, 2001 Location: Bathurst & Orange, in constant flux Age: 37 Posts: 5,452	If the weapon is enchanted such that it can do extra damage, the speedfactor and THAC0 bonus of the weapon should not be affected IMO. If it is unenchanted but does more damage, then it should suffer a penalty to speed factor - more metal has been lumped on to achieve the extra damage, and so it would be heavier and thus harder to swing. If it is enchanted such that it guides itself to the target, it should grant a THAC0 bonus, but the damage and speed factor should not be affected. If it has a higher speed factor, it's damage should, if anything, be made less.

08-21-2003, 07:35 AM	#6
Devv The Magister Join Date: August 19, 2003 Location: Amn, city of coin Age: 41 Posts: 138	Thanks for the replies and thanks for your welcome six of spades I checked out your cool site. Loads of work done on that and it's very informative and good to read [img]smile.gif[/img] You mention how you made that mage/thief where you altered elves lowest charisma levels to make him ugly. In my game I have altered all the stats for the existing races permanently. I felt Elves should have 20 dex and 19 wisdom aswell as 19 int, but I lowered their con to 16 and str to 17.

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