Cigarettes

[Skunk]

The problem with ciggarettes is that it's sooo easy to start (even at an age when you should know better). So many people start with:
'just one won't hurt'
then progress on to:
'I can quit whenever I want to
without ever noticing the transition. It creeps up on you unawares in the same way that a casual drinker becomes an alchoholic.

Whoever is to blame, once you are 'hooked', giving up is not simply a question of 'willpower' - it often requires very HARD changes to your lifestyle up to and even (often) including the severing of ties with friends who smoke.

For those who think that failed-to-give-up smokers are just weak-willed, I have a small experiment for you. I'd like you to try giving up flavoured beverages for a year; not forever, but just for a year. That means no coffee in the morning or after dinner, no beer/wine when your out with friends in the evenings, no cola or fruit-juice on a hot-summer's day - but just plain old mineral water. How long will you last? How long will your marriage last? Will you ever be late for work or have arguments? And when your friends invite you out to a bar and you order water, they won't say anything about it or give you a hard time, huh? Afterall, it's just a question of willpower, right?

Starting to smoke (as I did) is plain dumb - sure it is. But we all make mistakes and do foolish things in our lives and we don't want to hear how dumb we are when we do those things. No, we need help and understanding in dealing with our problems.

Now I managed to give up after COUNTLESS attempts and twenty years of a 30-40 a day habit. It was the hardest thing that I have ever done and I still don't know why the final attempt worked when all of the others failed. But it did work and I'm happy about it.

Personally, I blame the government for my woes. Ciggarettes are a harmful drug that kill or injure (at best) and serve absolutely no postitive medical purpose.

Why isn't the tax revenue from ciggarette duty and sales not directed solely towards assisting people to give up in the form of funding free nicotine patches, drop-in centres and support groups etc. We do it for heroin - why not for nicotine? Why is it legal to buy and sell them anway?

[Chewbacca]

May I offer the History of Tobacco:

http://www.historian.org/bysubject/tobacco1.htm

It seems people have either loved or hated tobacco since it's "discovery" in the new world.

[Faceman]

pritchke, cigarette companies are global and not every country has the same law.
Over here for example smoking and drinking (wine, beer, low alcoholic beverages) age is 16, driving and voting age is 18 however (and drinking age for spirits).
So over here they might very well "legally" advertise smoking to a sixteen year old, based on you definition of adult. However there is a silent agreement that they don't do that.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Pikachu_PM: Khazadman, People react differenly to cigarettes. What worked for you won't work for everybody. I;ve been as long as a week without a cigarette...I wasn't feeling better I was feeling worse. I was literally a walking zombie, and my work performance was suffering...the minuted I smoked a cigarette I got a little dizzy and lightheaded, then felt 'normal' for the first time in a week. Could I have 'stuck it out'? Yes. but what good would that do me if I got fired? Read last weeks TIME magazine...it has a small article in their about quiting smoking. Cold turkey is BY FAR the worst way to quit. I"m down to 2 or 3 cigarettes a day and working my way down. Oh and it's 'wholey my fault' I'm addicted? Partially, yes...but wholey? If I kept eating butter and sausage for breakfast and died of a heart attack that would be WHOLEY my fault. Cigarettes are a product manufactured for the sole purpose of addicting someone. I don't get a buzz anymore. I get no joy out of smoking. I smoke because if I don't I can't function properly. You would admit that crack and a crack dealer is evil wouldn't you? Why are cigarette companies any less so just because their legal? Here's a good question for you...if cigarettes were invented for the very first time this year...tobacoo was JUST discovered...do you think theirs any chance in hell the product would be made legal?

Pikachu - I'm glad to hear you are able to cut down on the number of cigs you smoke a day. While I am not a smoker myself, I've lived with loved ones all my life that are. I understand that it is physically and mentally harder for some people to quit than it is for others. I do know several people who have quit through various methods and I would have to echo Lord Kathan's opinion. Most of the people I know personally said that cold turkey was the easiest way and most effective method for them. Of course, that is usually because whatever caused them to quit cold turkey was compelling enough to overcome the withdrawals they experienced. The diagnosis of antryg's wife is a good example.

One suggestion I would add to the others that have been made is that you take some of your vacation time the next time you give quitting a serious try. Since you know it will cause physical and mental disorientation that affects your job performance, then remove that particular stress factor from the equation. Then if you feel like you have to just lie down and rest, you can.

As for your continued assertion that tobacco companies are EVIL - well, you're entitled to your opinion. But like the others, I disagree. You said that you are "standing up and taking responsibility for your decision", but so far the only comment I've seen regarding that is that you only accept "partial responsibility" for your addiction. I'm sorry - I simply can't agree. You knew cigarettes were made deliberately addictive by the tobacco companies and the dangers of smoking have been very well documented and widely advertised since before you were born. You say you didn't know it would lead you to a point where you couldn't go a day without a cigarette...then you obviously overestimated your ability to withstand the addictive properties they contain. Maybe you felt other people got addicted because they were weak, but that wouldn't happen to you. Whatever your reasoning, you now know firsthand that all the negative advertising about cigarettes is true. I'm sorry you had to find it out firsthand, but that still doesn't make tobacco companies responsible for your decision to start using their product in the first place.

When I was in college, cocaine was a popular drug of choice. But I heard a report that said cocain was so addictive that you could become hopelessly addicted with your very first snort...so you know what? I never took the chance that I would fall victim to it. Several of my friends in my gaming group smoked marijuana. There have been plenty of times when I was in the room and had the joint or bong passed my way. I simply held up my hand and said "No Thanks" (which really pleased the guy offering to me, since he got to take an "extra" hit or toke. ). Both of my parents smoke cigarettes. Yet I've never taken the first puff off of one.

The point is, the decision to start smoking was yours alone! So the responsibility for your addiction is yours alone also.

And - to answer your question - I do NOT consider crack or crack dealers EVIL. Crack is an inanimate object and cannot be described as Good or Evil. Crack dealers are simply meeting a demand that is there. They aren't responsible for getting people addicted in the first place (wellllll, maybe they take a more direct hand in that than the tobacco companies do, but the addict STILL is usually a willing victim).

It isn't the crack dealer's fault that people are addicted to the product he/she provides. Granted, he/she is selling a product that is highly illegal, and they face significant risk factors because of that. But they also recieve an equally large revenue that offsets the risks they face.

You are right that tobacco probably would not legalized if it were discovered today, but that's a moot point. The point is that it IS legal..and as long as there is a demand for a legal product, there WILL be companies or individuals that will provide the product that meets that demand. That isn't good or evil, that is simply the law of supply and demand.

[Pikachu_PM]

Cerek:

I think your overanalyzing my definition of evil. 'evil' may be too harsh... 'self serving' might be a better adjetive for me to use, but then; thats not harsh enough.

Point being if the world were black and white (and I know its not) then cigarettes would fall on the side of black.

I do understand what your saying...a good analogy would be that if I got drunk and killed somebody in a car wreck...it wouldn't matter if it was the only time in my life I did that...my 'one' moment of bad decision has a (imo justifiable) lifelong consequence to it.

It is this reason that I DO take partial responsablity for smoking...but the reason I don't take whole responsability is because of the INTENT of the product. Lets look:

Drinking:

responsable usage will not cause addiction

responsable usage will not harm your body

responsable usage is actually GOOD for you

responsable usage is will produce the desired
effects (aka, buzz) every time.

Even irresponsable usage will create the desired effect (aka buzz) after tolerance has been surpassed

Cigarretes:

'Responsable' usage will lead to addiction

ANY usage causes harm to your body.
'
responsable' usage will eventually stop giving you the desired effect (aka buzz)

'responsable' usage will not give one a 'buzz' EVER after addiction has set in.
r
esponsable usage will, by chemical design, cause the need to smoke more and more--not feel a buzz---but simply to feel normal.


By 'responsable', I mean 2-3 drinks/cigarettes a day every 3 days.

[Pikachu_PM]

Oh, and one more thing...it IS the crack dealers fault. You may not think so, but I do. In fact you've hit on the fundamentals of why I believe drug companies (legal or otherwise) ARE to blame.

They don't get asked for a product and then make it...the make a product and then MARKET it. Thats why its their fault.

More to the point...drug dealers are often older people manipulating and addicting kids still in secondary school...now that is EVIL EVIL EVIL.

[Grendal]

Pikachu...by your 4:57 post you obviously knew the consequences of what you were doing. Ya tobacco is a shitty thing but you picked up the first one. Sounds to me like you are making excuses. Try the patch...try Zyban...or go cold turkey. Dont matter which method, quiting is a hard thing to do no matter how you slice it. Your either gonna quit or your not but dont blame anyone but yourself. Once a smoker always a smoker. My dad quit 18 yrs ago but still has cravings...they will never go away completely.

[Paladin2000]

Originally posted by Pikachu_PM: Oh, and one more thing...it IS the crack dealers fault. You may not think so, but I do. In fact you've hit on the fundamentals of why I believe drug companies (legal or otherwise) ARE to blame. They don't get asked for a product and then make it...the make a product and then MARKET it. Thats why its their fault. More to the point...drug dealers are often older people manipulating and addicting kids still in secondary school...now that is EVIL EVIL EVIL.

Fine, fine, fine. Blame the tobacco companies. See if they care if it bothers you so much. They don't and they wouldn't. If you really care about your own body, just focus on the ailment:

ailment - cigarette addiction.
Cure - quit or smoke more.

Which would you prefer? If you want to quit, just focus on the task at hand and ignore anything else... unless you expect the tobacco company to come up with a miracle cure to stop your cigarette addiction.

Just take a deep breath and contemplate on it. Right now I need to collect some power ups for my body. [img]graemlins/goodmorning.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/stonedout.gif[/img]

[Pikachu_PM]

What in the the world is up with you guys? My focus is not to put the blame of MY being addicted to cigarettes on the tobacco companies...what 'I' did, at 24 years old, is ultimatley 90% 'my' fault.

That makes the tobacco industry no less evil for addicting millions of other Americans at the age of 14-16, or for taking advantage of people who really DIDN'T know better.

You mistake my opinions for trying to place blame for my issues...I am not. Just stating that selling cigarettes is just as wrong as selling drugs.

[Night Stalker]

Originally posted by Pikachu_PM: What in the the world is up with you guys? My focus is not to put the blame of MY being addicted to cigarettes on the tobacco companies...what 'I' did, at 24 years old, is ultimatley 90% 'my' fault. That makes the tobacco industry no less evil for addicting millions of other Americans at the age of 14-16, or for taking advantage of people who really DIDN'T know better. You mistake my opinions for trying to place blame for my issues...I am not. Just stating that selling cigarettes is just as wrong as selling drugs.

You keep wondering what's wrong with the rest of us, and you know something, we're wondering the same about you (well, not too extensivly )

I was hard in my last post, but had no intention of being offensive. Now, don't take this the wrong way, but every one of your responses in this thread have the form of "I know it's my fault, BUT .....". It's that 'but' that's killing you. That is why I say you are displaying a Victim Mentality. Not sure what that is? Just whatch Dr. Phill. His entire show is based around victim mentality.

Forget about Big Tobacco for now. They are not your problem. Your problem is your addiction. If you want to quit smoking, you need to put down the "but". (pun intended ) There is no "mostly my fault" or "90% my fault". You must accept 100% responsiblity and then DO something about quitting. Whether that's cold turkey, or a support group, whatever. Every time you say 'but' though is a justification, that leads to a rationalization, that leads to your continued addiction.

That's what I was talking about when I said stop being a victim and master your life. Everytime you deflect culpability with an excuse (a "but") you continue to play the victim ..... of yourself. So, stop being a slave and become your own master.

I say your lack of will power is getting in the way of you quitting, not because I think that it's just a matter of saying to yourself "I'm gonna quit now ...". True addiction can be a powerful handycap. But it takes will power and wisdom to recognize that you need help (if you can't quit by will alone) and it takes will power to then seek help and DO something.

So focus on your addiction, and forget Big Tobacco. Stop using "but". Once you get rid of your addiction, then take up your crusade. I'll still disagree with you, but that's another discussion a Loooonnnnnggg time from now.

PS BYW Big Tobacco does not additct 14-16 yr olds. They only sell through autorized distributers and NO seller of tobacco is allowed to sell to minors. Minors acquire their product through alternate channels that Big Tobacco has no control over.