What or Who, is TuTu?

[Faceman]

There even were tries to make balanced +10 weapons, honestly.
Somebody posted something about a "Hackmaster +10" some time ago. It was a killer weapon, but had a 10% chance of vorpal hit on self so it would be a last resort.
Said helmet of course is a bit too powerful and probably was made out of annoyance of mind flayer battles, but BGT in general adds almost no new items and the few it does may be powerful but do in no way compare to SotM or the Cloak of cheese

[Rockstar]

a +10 weapon balanced?? lol!

what is SotM and cloak of the cheese? hehehe

[Faceman]

It actually was a Hackmaster +12
and although it was meant as a fun item (like the Butterknife of Balduran) we had a lively discussion about how to balance it out.

SotM - Staff of the Magi
Cloak of Cheese - Cloak of Mirroring
Both are standard issue Black Isle items and both invite a whole lot of cheese to the party [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cerek]

I disagree that being able to add Rings of Protection to armor unbalances the game. To me, it actually conforms the game to the original PnP rules.

I played PnP by 1st Edition rules. Some of our DM's were more strict than others, but the one that taught me the game was probably the most "balanced" as far as the items he allowed players to have.

The standard rule for AC bonus was that each different item would add their bonus to your AC. In other words, you got the benefit from armor, Ring of Protection, Cloak of Protection and Boots of Speed - but did NOT get the bonus from two Rings of Protection.

As for the argument that this "unbalances" the original "Black Isle" rules - poppycock. When I first joined IW, I saw plenty of posts with players bragging about having an AC of -12 to -15, and this was BEFORE "Ease of Use" or any other Weimer Mod came along. They were getting those AC's with the plain vanilla version of BG2 and the standard items found in the original game. How they did it is beyond me, because I've NEVER had an AC better than -10 (which was also the max AC available in PnP rules - regardless of how many different items you may have had).

As for items found outside the game, some are powerful. But the game itself has some items that are JUST as powerful, so that argument kinda falls flat too.

As for the whole discussion of BGTuTu vs BGT, it sounds to me like the best option is just to play BG1 Vanilla. The character classes are strong enough and you avoid ANY transition or concurrent game problems. Yeah, it would be nice to play a barbarian or beserker in BG1, but a straight fighter will serve just as well until you advance to BG2.

Personally, I'm glad to see this thread. I had recently considered installing BGTuTu (just to give it a try), but the discussion here has convinced me to just leave my BG1 game alone.

[Faceman]

Don't give up on Tutu or BGT yet Cerek. It's not about powergaming it's about having better graphics and about the possibility to toy around with the kits and new classes on lower levels. In case of BGT it also gives you the freedom to take some brand new (actually old) NPCs to BG2.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Faceman: Don't give up on Tutu or BGT yet Cerek. It's not about powergaming it's about having better graphics and about the possibility to toy around with the kits and new classes on lower levels. In case of BGT it also gives you the freedom to take some brand new (actually old) NPCs to BG2.

I understand that, Faceman. And I would dearly love to have Dynaheir in BG2. But if TuTu or BGT is going to cause problems with my BG2 game, then it simply isn't worth it to me.

I have too many Mods installed and too many different games going to do a second installation of the game just to accommodate being allowed to have kits in BG1.

[Rockstar]

Isn't using dead NPC's against the whole honourable roleplayer way?

And Cerek. I believe that if Black Isle had made BG with the rules you state then the armour and rings would be different or the enemies and battles you encounter would be different to suit the change.

It is all about full circle balance. Take a link out of this full circle balance and then imbalance flies everywhere and we get people gloating about how great they solo when they don't even follow the rules of the game...

[Faceman]

Dynaheir sadly is among the NPCs you can't use. Every member of the "standard party" (i.e. Minsc, Dynaheir, Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid) you lose after the transition. While you can get the classic three back Dynaheir and Khalid are gone forever.
Other NPCs (like Xan, Shar-Teel, Kivan,...) however you can (or at least could in my version) bring in.

[Rockstar]

^^

yup that sounds A. O.K. with me

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Rockstar: Isn't using dead NPC's against the whole honourable roleplayer way? And Cerek. I believe that if Black Isle had made BG with the rules you state then the armour and rings would be different or the enemies and battles you encounter would be different to suit the change. It is all about full circle balance. Take a link out of this full circle balance and then imbalance flies everywhere and we get people gloating about how great they solo when they don't even follow the rules of the game...

Having the storyline changed so that they weren't killed would avoid that problem - but would create others. Specifically, Aerie is used as a "replacement witch" for Minsc and the romance with Jaheira could never exist if Khalid wasn't killed.

I only mentioned Dynaheir because I felt she was a MUCH better mage than Edwin in BG1.

I liked Kivan fairly well, though his stats were kinda sucky. I would also like to see Ajantis, Yeslick and the female cleric (that you have to "rescue") available. I never cared for Monteran and his partner to begin with. Xan has a cool sword, but he is terribly wimpy otherwise. Garrick would be a nice addition and he already shows up in BG2 - just not as a joinable NPC.

As for the rings and armor, there is NOTHING "dishonorable" OR "unbalancing" about the changes made by Ease-Of-Use. Like I said, I saw PLENTY of members here bragging about having an AC of -15 or better looooong before Ease-Of-Use ever came along - so there were plenty of ways to abuse the original BG2 system if one put thier mind to it.

Even with Ease-Of-Use, I've never had an AC better than -10 (which was the max allowed in PnP), so I see nothing dishonourable or unbalanced about it.