European MEPs give thumbs-up to Turkey

[Faceman]

Originally posted by MagiK: The Aging poplation of Western Europe is a serious threat to their continued existance as a western culture. One of the main worries about Turkey being brought in is the expected flood of immigrants...Europeans may find themselves out bred and become a dying breed.

The keyword is integration here. Europeans are a culture not a breed. As such they (theoretically) can continue to exist even if the "original Europeans (whatever THAT is supposed to mean) "die out".
Although there is of course influence of contemporary Turkish culture in Europe already, the majority of the immigrants have adapted to "Western" culture and this is what the evolving of every culture has been about in history.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by MagiK: The Aging poplation of Western Europe is a serious threat to their continued existance as a western culture. One of the main worries about Turkey being brought in is the expected flood of immigrants...Europeans may find themselves out bred and become a dying breed.

Those worries are probably exaggerated. There was much talk about "social tourism", the idea that masses of people would flock to Western Europe and take advantage of our generous welfare system, when EU expanded into Eastern Europe. No such thing have happened to any greater extent this far.

[Kaelas]

Well, I think the EU has enough on its plate as it is right now with all the former states of the Warsaw Pact that already have or will be joining the Union shortly. They are not exactly in top condition, if you get my drift. It will cost A LOT of time, effort and, of course, money to get them (economically) up to par with the rest of Europe. I wonder if the EU isn't stretching itself too thin at the moment, so I can't see Turkey becoming a regular member anytime soon.

Also keep in mind that Turkey is an islamic country, they still discriminate against women and minorities, religious and otherwise (e.g. Christians and Kurds, respectively) and use methodical torture in their penal system. When it comes to human rights they still have a lot of work to do.

While I personally know some very nice people of Turkish origin there are also a lot of those here in Germany that refuse to integrate into society even though they have the German citizenship. I know of people living here for 30 years and not speaking a word of German. They live in close-knit communities and usually stay apart from the rest of the population. Some of them even force their daughters into arranged marriages and forbid them to ever form romantic attachments to men not of the islamic faith; and to refuse the head of the family usually has dire consequences.

In the past few months there have been quite a few cases where preachers in mosques have called on the Turkish men to support the Holy War with words as well as deeds...

This conduct, in my opinion, is hardly appropriate in a democratic western nation. I am all for religious freedom, but that should not lead to violations of the principles of the constitutional state they live in.

I have hope, though, that with tolerance, effort and patience Turkey can be properly integrated into the EU.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Faceman: A secret vote, be it in parliament or in a public election is not a matter of cowardice, but one of the pillars of a working democracy.

I must respectfully disagree. As an elected representative, your every vote should be recorded for public perusal, else how can you justify your effectiveness to your constituents? Besides, what do they have to hide?

[The Hierophant]

I always got the impression that a secret ballot is designed to hamstring any potential intimidation or favouritism during and after the election process. If the particulars of who voted for whom are unknown, then the 'victorious' faction can't peruse the voting lists and say 'Ah, so you voted for the other guy eh? Well, now we know who to look out for don't we...' Makes sense to me.

[Stratos]

What I really want to know, is why the hurry with Turkey's EU membership?

[Kaelas]

Originally posted by Stratos: What I really want to know, is why the hurry with Turkey's EU membership?

There are two reasons for this as far as I am aware:

1) Chancellor Kohl promised it at some point when he was still in office.

2) The reform process and with it the fate of the Turkish president (I'm not sure how the head of state is called over there) hinges on the successful EU membership of Turkey. There are a lot of reactionary forces at work in the country trying to model Turkey after the classic notion of the islamic "god-state" (comparable to Iran) and are, of course, anti-European in their sentiment. Had the EU not acknowledged Turkey's membership somewhere down the line at this point, the Turkish president would have tremendously lost in influence and any reforms he introduced would most likely not have lasted very long.

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Stratos: What I really want to know, is why the hurry with Turkey's EU membership?

Hurry? They've been waiting for thirty years and certainly won't join before 2014.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Stratos: What I really want to know, is why the hurry with Turkey's EU membership?

Hurry? They've been waiting for thirty years and certainly won't join before 2014. [/QUOTE]Exactly, they set up a road that will last for 10 years. If Turkey somewhere along the road doesn't live up to the expectations, they won't get in. And if they do, something else will pop up. This seemed to ease eveyone's minds for now, no drastic decisions have been made and they all went home happy. Typical political outcome.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Stratos: What I really want to know, is why the hurry with Turkey's EU membership?

Hurry? They've been waiting for thirty years and certainly won't join before 2014. [/QUOTE]But how many of these years have they been actually eligible for membership? And are they now?