A view on patriotism

[Yorick]

I'm a very patriotic Australian, but also aware of the flaws of the nation.
I'm a very patriotic New Yorker, but also aware of the flaws of the city.


Kaz, historically speaking, German nationalism was used to manipulate the loyalties, wounded pride and energy of the Deutsch. Nationalism grew out of the Monarchies of Europe, and is not inherantly evil either. It's a love for ones nation, ones people, and the desire for ones people to be united as one nation, instead of ruled either seperately or conjoined with others, under a Monarch.

France and Germany both owe their modern existance to the rise of nationalism as opposed to monarchism. The German principalities were extraordinarily disunified for generations.

It's understandable that there should be a fervor to never repeat the past mistakes, and this is creditable. However a backlash can create an equally strong negative reaction. Overcompensation.

In the abandonment of localised nationalism, has it been replaced by a broader Europeanism? Nationalism only really became a problem in Germany once it was unified and had been humiliated by war and economic hardship.

Let us hope to God a similar circumstance does not happen once Europe totally unites.


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[Kaz]

I'm actually not exactly sure, Yorick. I think that we do have a kind of "European feeling" instead of a "German feeling". I consider myself a citizen of Europe just as much as I consider myself a citizen of Germany, I should hope (there I go again...). Of course, one must differentiate between Europe and the EU. The feeling of togetherness (?) is stronger within the EU countries than within the European countries. I get the feeling I'm not making a lot of sense right now, I guess I should get some sleep. Maybe I should ask Ramon or debiler to come over, as I cannot speak for all Germans with my opinions.

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[Liliara]

Hmmm.... I seem to cause trouble even when I haven't posted! (BTW thank you Yorrick, my fellow American, for your points! )

I look at it like this:

When you are in a family, you can fight amongst each other, even the occasional bloody nose. You can verge on hatred even! Rebel against your parents.

Now when a member of your family is attacked by the family accross town, that is a different story. You put aside those differenses and take care of whoever it was that sought to bring harm on your family. After all, just because you don't get along, doesn't mean that you don't love each other!

That is what America is! A family! And damn it, when someone messes with our family the way they did on 9-11, well, I say let whoever wants to get mad at our responce, do it!! We WILL have justice, and keep ALL FAMILIES from feeling the same.

Yes, I am a patriot! Proud to be! The reason I see these terrorists as cowards is because they know better than to come onto our soil, in plain sight, and wage war! Even without us having a military, they would be dead before dawn from American citizens protecting their families! I guarantee.... we have more heroes than cowards.

THIS is MY view on PATRIOTISM!
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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member


"I've had it up to here, listening to a small segment of people try to put down America! America's the greatest land on Earth, and we oughta be proud of what we have! I'm proud of America, I'm proud of our people, and I'm gonna prove it. We're American and DAMN proud of it! Frankly I'm getting a little ticked off...go ta ****"... Dink (if anyone knows who originally said this, please let me know!)

[This message has been edited by Liliara (edited 10-15-2001).]

[John D Harris]

Liliara,
Was it Bill Murray in the movie "Stripes" that said the quote you are using for you sig?
I realy liked what you said about this is a family, sounded just like what my wife said about the USA being a family.
As a good ol' Southern redneck I say it will be a cold day in hell before we sit idly by and let some outsider stick their nose in our family! As I said on an early thread (pre 9-11-2001), and was ridiculed for it, "The USA is the nicest, kindest, bunch of blow-hards that ever walked the face of the earth. We will give you anything if you ask, but if you kick in our door we will blow your head off your shoulders and not lose a wink of sleep."

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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
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Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[Bullvye]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Liliara, Was it Bill Murray in the movie "Stripes" that said the quote you are using for you sig? I realy liked what you said about this is a family, sounded just like what my wife said about the USA being a family. As a good ol' Southern redneck I say it will be a cold day in hell before we sit idly by and let some outsider stick their nose in our family! As I said on an early thread (pre 9-11-2001), and was ridiculed for it, "The USA is the nicest, kindest, bunch of blow-hards that ever walked the face of the earth. We will give you anything if you ask, but if you kick in our door we will blow your head off your shoulders and not lose a wink of sleep."

I'd like to quote Robin Williams.." We're Americans, we're simple people, but piss us off and we'll bomb your cities. But then we build you back up and buy your products,.....we're nice people!"

[Ryanamur]

Patriotism, just like religion, is not a bad thing. But, when there's too much of it, things can be thrown way out of proportion.

What people need to realize is that you have 2 kind of people in the world: those that are righteous and criminals. It doesn't matter if they're Afghans or American, good righteous people are good and bad people are criminals.

The world is not yet ready to accept this simple reality and it's consequences

Right now, we're more concerned about labelling all people who present similarities into a certain group. We (Occidentals) do it and they (Middle East) do it to.

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-16-2001).]