Who Is Accountable? - Page 2

Attalus · 06-09-2002, 06:33 PM

The USA is a democracy only in generally speaking. Techically we are a constitutional republic, like Australia and Canada. We elect our representatives and they are then free to act as they see fit, subject to periodic review. So, by voting either way, you are supporting the system, whoever wins. Even paying taxes can be construed as supporting a government. But, by the great adage that Power and Responsibility are the two sides of the same coin, we have responsibility only as far as we are powerful enough to affect decision-making, which is very little. Unless you are a high official, elected or in the military.

[ 06-09-2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

John D Harris · 06-09-2002, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:
Are the people who live in any given nation responsible or accountable for their governments actions?

Your thoughts requested.

Mark

Good question Skywalker, I'd say yes and no. Yes to the general direction their nation takes. No to the specific actions taken by individuals in the gov't. example: If my US Congressman Takes an action that violates one of our laws or treaties, I can't be held responsible for his actions, But I can be held responsible for not trying to hold him accountable to all the laws that are applicable.

Chewbacca · 06-09-2002, 07:57 PM

No, the people in goverment should be held accountable for thier decisions, policies and directives.

This is why the American constitution specifically gives citizens the right to petition greivances against the goverment, as a means of holding those people elected accountable.

06-10-2002, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John D Harris:

quote:
Originally posted by skywalker:
Are the people who live in any given nation responsible or accountable for their governments actions?

Your thoughts requested.

Mark

Good question Skywalker, I'd say yes and no. Yes to the general direction their nation takes. No to the specific actions taken by individuals in the gov't. example: If my US Congressman Takes an action that violates one of our laws or treaties, I can't be held responsible for his actions, But I can be held responsible for not trying to hold him accountable to all the laws that are applicable.[/QUOTE]I have to disagree with the "Yes to the general direction their nation takes." portion of your response. Just because a majority votes one way does not mean that all the people want it to go that way.
Sometimes elections are not as honest as they should be either, making the outcome one thing in spite of a majority having voted the other way...some elections have even used wording tactics to "trick" voters into shooting some proposals down (a Martin Luther King Jr. day in AZ for example...I know about this one because I was there and voted in the election in which the trickery took place) or boosting voter reults on a proposal that the majority is against. It happens.
John Q. Public is not to be blamed for the actions of his government unless he participates in the deceitful side of politics.

I am glad you posed this question, Mark. It should give IW members something to think about when grouping a whole nation in with the decisions their governments make.

[ 06-10-2002, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Moni ]

mistral4543 · 06-10-2002, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:
Are the people who live in any given nation responsible or accountable for their governments actions?

I would like to categorise the "people" in this case into 3 groups:

Group 1 - the one which recommends policies for Cabinet's consideration (public sector/civil service)

Group 2 - the one which decides the final course of action (Cabinet or executive powers)

Group 3 - the one which votes on which government (the general public)

On a scale of 1 (least influence) to 5 (most influence):

Group 1 scores from the range 2 to 4, depending on the extent to which the Cabinet relies on its judgement. Group 1 definitely has more influence as compared to Group 3 (hence the higher range), so it is more accountable /responsible than Group 3.

Group 2 scores 5, since it makes the final decision to be taken. It is also the most accountable / responsible for any actions taken.

Group 3 scores from the range of 1 to 3, depending on the extent to which the government consults the general public on policy/operational issues. The range also takes into consideration the fact that group 3 usually has the right to vote off the government if the latter has done a poor job.

skywalker · 06-10-2002, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moni:

I am glad you posed this question, Mark. It should give IW members something to think about when grouping a whole nation in with the decisions their governments make.

This is exactly why I posted this question. Thought it may have sounded simplistic, at first glance, I did have a motive.

Mark

Yorick · 06-10-2002, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord Shield:
of course not - accountability goes UP The chain of command, not down

apart from your vote you have no control

Sure you do.

Purchasing power. Petitions. Protests. Strikes. Lobbying. Use of media. Artistic expression. Advertising.

06-09-2002, 06:33 PM	#11
Attalus Symbol of Bane Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 77 Posts: 8,167	The USA is a democracy only in generally speaking. Techically we are a constitutional republic, like Australia and Canada. We elect our representatives and they are then free to act as they see fit, subject to periodic review. So, by voting either way, you are supporting the system, whoever wins. Even paying taxes can be construed as supporting a government. But, by the great adage that Power and Responsibility are the two sides of the same coin, we have responsibility only as far as we are powerful enough to affect decision-making, which is very little. Unless you are a high official, elected or in the military. [ 06-09-2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ] __________________ Even Heroes sometimes fail...

06-09-2002, 07:57 PM	#13
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 52 Posts: 5,373	No, the people in goverment should be held accountable for thier decisions, policies and directives. This is why the American constitution specifically gives citizens the right to petition greivances against the goverment, as a means of holding those people elected accountable. __________________ Support Local Music and Record Stores! Got Liberty?

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