Talked with some kids on the internet... disappointed...

[Timber Loftis]

Chewie, my understanding of Satanism was more what Yorick and Melusine stated, not what the site you linked used as a definition.

And, Yorick, I always thought they called the religion "Satanism" because they believe it is the personal credo Satan would follow.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Chewie, my understanding of Satanism was more what Yorick and Melusine stated, not what the site you linked used as a definition. And, Yorick, I always thought they called the religion "Satanism" because they believe it is the personal credo Satan would follow.

Yeah but that site is full of clangers Timber. I would take anything it presents with a grain of salt. Take this clanger:

Conservative Christians generally believe that 1. there are only two powerful supernatural forces in the world: their God and Satan. 2. A few of them believe that if a person does not worship their God and hold their beliefs, then they must be worshiping Satan. The latter are, by definition, Satanists. Thus, they view all religions different from their own to be are forms of Satanism. This would include established world religions from Buddhism to Zoroastrianism, and might even include liberal and some mainline Christians. Satanists would then make up in excess of 90% of the world's population -- i.e. everyone who is not a conservative Christian.■Using this definition, the term "Satanism" becomes almost meaningless.

I mean where to start with the errors?

1.They've confused Christianity with dualism. Christianity is not dualist. There is one creative power in the Christians universe. God.

Satan is, under mainstream biblical theology, a (fallen) ANGEL. No creative power. Additionally, there are many many many angels and archangels, fallen and not. So, to state that there are two powerful supernatural forces ignores the Archangels Michael and Gabriel for example.

2.Yeah, we all worship something. God, or our job, our partner, our self, sport. None of these God alternatives are necessarily 'Satanic'. Secondly, C.S.Lewis - the fundamentalist champion of reason, Christian theology and illuminative explainations - puts it that there are varying degrees of truth. That, if Christianity holds the most truth, it would follow that Judaism is next, Islam next, Buddhism next and so on and so forth. The preferences changing with perception.

No mainstream christian would imagine, that a Jew, when calling out to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the Yhwh that is, was and will be; the same God of the old testament that Christians follow; is calling out to Satan. That simply doesn't make sense. They follow to the letter the same old testament we have. We have the ADDED revelation of the new testament. So, one who believes Christianity is right, would believe Judaism is right TO A POINT. The same applies to Islam. 'Allah' is Arabic for God. When they call to God, they call to God. When they worship the creator, they worship the creator.

Where Satan may or may not come into it, is in what the Muslim or Jew HEARS, not what they worship. Satan can distort truth, distort words. A person may believe they are hearing from God, when they are actually hearing a devil.

Do we see the difference? They are worshipping the same God, but hearing from a different source. Christians would say those that differ are being deceived, not that they are praying to Satan. That is the belief system the website is attempting to explain, but has done so incorrectly.

A suggested definition: Accepts Satan as a pre-Christian life-principle concept worth emulating.■

I would also add, that "preChristian" is in effect, 4000 years ago. Though Christianity was first mentioned by Romans delineating Jews following Jesus, from Jews not following Jesus, the theology of Christianity - including that of a redemptive messiah who would being salvation - existed within Judaism. The concept of Satan was not reinvented with Christianity. It was, as said, written in the book of Job (a book older that Genesis).

[ 08-27-2004, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Chewbacca]

Yorick left out the disclaimer:

Our use of the terms "Satanism" and "Satanic:" We define a religion according to the beliefs of the actual followers. So, for example, we define any religious organization or individual as "Christian" if the faith group or person sincerely, thoughtfully, devoutly, prayerfully considers themselves to be Christian. This includes Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Baptists, Charismatics, Pentecostals, mainline Christians, liberal Christians, Mormons, Unificationists, United Church members, Roman Catholics, Gnostic Christians and even Jewish Christians from the 1st Century CE. We list all as Christian even though they follow very different beliefs and practices. So too, we regard as Satanists any group or individual who sincerely and thoughtfully considers themselves to be Satanic. This includes religious Satanists -- who are typically adults, -- and Satanic "dabblers" who are often teens. This policy is the only fair one that we have been able to develop. It accounts for much of the angry Email that we receive.

So what he has described as dualist may also be considered Christians, particularly if they think they are. He is of course free to disagree with them and cast them out for not adhereing to his verion of the truth. That's his perogative.


He has also exchanged the word "Supernatural" with the word "creative".

1. there are only two powerful supernatural forces in the world: their God and Satan.

Yorick: There is one creative power in the Christians universe. God.

He did get it right that there are other supernatural forces mentioned in scripture, but perhaps for simplicities sake only God and Satan are portrayed.

Besides, that section of the site is dedicated to Satanism, not Christianity. I can understand if they used a cliff notes version in that regards. I can also understand that not everyone is going to agree with them line by line.

A simple difference of perspective- neither is correct nor incorrect.

Here is the section of the site dedicated to Christianity:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/christ.htm

Finally, Pre and post-Abrahamic inspirations for the "entity" now known as Satan is an entirely other and too lengthy a topic for me to want to get into now. Sufficed to say as an Archtypal ideal it pre-dates Abraham and survives to this day.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Chewie, my understanding of Satanism was more what Yorick and Melusine stated, not what the site you linked used as a definition.

Well, perhaps your understanding will change and grow or you will disregard what I offered. I am sure if you looked around hard enough you could find the CoS in Chicago and ask some of them what it is all about.

[Memnoch]

Found it.

Sorry fellas...you're now clearly discussing and debating religion here, which contravenes the moratorium. The last few posts pushed it over the edge. Granted, everyone's been very civil, and I appreciate that, but I'm wary if that will still be the case 10 pages from now - our previous track record on this hasn't been very good, where we start civil and end up beating each other about the head. You guys will need to be really careful about where this line is - I was hoping that some of the more responsible among you would have exercised more judgment in knowing where this line on debating religion is, but unfortunately it seems very few know where this line still is. Sorry guys. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 08-27-2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]