Talked to a Turkish Immigrant....

I had the oppoprtunity to talk to a Turkish immigrant this past weekend He is the guy that cuts my hair... He and a bunch of other middle eastern small business owners have this "association" to help each other succeed in thier new adopted country. We talked about the looming war and the issues surrounding things.
There was a general concensus by the people of his group.
1. The USA should get rid of Saddam and help set up a Democratic form of government in Iraq.
2. None of them understand why people (especially US citizens) are so quick to denounce Bush and Blair for wanting to go to war....and in so doing continue to allow saddam to rule with his iron fist in iraq.
3. They all think the US is a place where anyone who wants to work, can succeed and become successful.

I love talking to these people. I learn all kinds of stuff about the nations they are from, nations they tried working and living in before they came here, and I have to say, when ever I am starting to feel like the world hates the USA these guys always give me a lift. None of them are from rich or prosperous families, all were poor and tried to make a go of it in several other countries before coming here...and all have done quite well for themselves once getting here....and they ALL love the US and our way of life. made me happy, wish I you all could talk to these folks.

On a side note...I saw part of a public debate with Tony blair and some regular studetn types...one Iraqi exile and one student protestor type....the Iraqi exile made quite a case for war, the protestor did a good job of backing her reasoning against war....excet that she could not rebut anything the Iraqi had to say...she had to ignore every human rights issue he brought up.

[Timber Loftis]

It's funny how the most patriotic people in the US are often those who know what a gift our way of life is and who have experienced life in other places.

I guess the humanitarian reason to go to Iraq has left the building. Let's just forget the fact that his regime executes over 100 people every day.

[Spelca]

I don't think bombing a country is a humanitarian thing to do either, do you? Bombing buildings which provide services to civilians, destroying the infrastructure, not to mention all the mines left after the war which kill thousands (if they'll use them) and all the people killed by the bombs themselves - all of that doesn't seem to promote human rights, at least not to me.

[Rikard_OHF]

not to mention a country which accepts orginanisations like the Ku Klux Klan
which imho is the Christain version of a Jihad organisation

Spelca, who said anything about bombing the country? The US hasn't used carpet bombing techniques on populated areas since Vietnam. Yeah infrastructure gets hit, but guess what...the USA pays to rebuild it. We also don't purposly target civilians either, we spend billions to upgrade weapons so that they are more and more precise, liberating those people will be humanitarian..I really suggest you talk to tome of the people who used to live there if you want the full horror story of his regime. I thought I had a fair view, but I was being too generaous on Saddam's behalf. The people of Iraq want us there, they are worried about what kind of government will come later and do not want to be a puppet state of the USA but they want the US to liberate them from Saddams abuses. And according to my Turkish friend, (his name ...well the americanized version of his name is Metm) the Turkish common person and the Turkish military Want the US to use their bases to end the threat of Saddam, on the other hand, they may also have an eye on Kurdistan aka Northern Iraq too.....

Originally posted by Rikard_OHF: not to mention a country which accepts orginanisations like the Ku Klux Klan which imho is the Christain version of a Jihad organisation

Can you show me any federal governmental person, agency or organization that supports the Klan?

On the other hand, the last time I heard the Klan had a right to their opinion same as anyone else....in theory..but lately only gays, lesbians and NAMBLA actualy seem to have that right. You cannot under the US constitution prohibit the Klan and its members from existing nor can you dictate what they think....

All in all your bringing the Klan up is rather suspect and probably flamebait since the clan has nothing to do with Turks, Iraq or the on going war.

[ 03-10-2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Timber Loftis]

Spelca, you keep saying that. Is your solution "do nothing" or do you have a proposal? We can't stop him from killing his own because war is killing. Okay - I get your point, though I respectfully disagree. What should we do, then? Quick - 100 people are currently dying whilst you think on it.

Originally posted by Rikard_OHF: not to mention a country which accepts orginanisations like the Ku Klux Klan which imho is the Christain version of a Jihad organisation

A.) [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img]
B.) [img]graemlins/troll.jpg[/img]

Beat ya too it TL

[Spelca]

Originally posted by MagiK: Spelca, who said anything about bombing the country? The US hasn't used carpet bombing techniques on populated areas since Vietnam. Yeah infrastructure gets hit, but guess what...the USA pays to rebuild it. We also don't purposly target civilians either, we spend billions to upgrade weapons so that they are more and more precise, liberating those people will be humanitarian..I really suggest you talk to tome of the people who used to live there if you want the full horror story of his regime. I thought I had a fair view, but I was being too generaous on Saddam's behalf. The people of Iraq want us there, they are worried about what kind of government will come later and do not want to be a puppet state of the USA but they want the US to liberate them from Saddams abuses. And according to my Turkish friend, (his name ...well the americanized version of his name is Metm) the Turkish common person and the Turkish military Want the US to use their bases to end the threat of Saddam, on the other hand, they may also have an eye on Kurdistan aka Northern Iraq too.....

So if your house got destroyed it would all be okay as long as they'd pay to rebuild it? Not to mention that human suffering cannot be measured in dollars. These people are already so hurt that war would totally destroy them. Many people will be traumatised... But I know I know... precise weapons and stuff. Yet people still die, don't they? They still miss. And little kids end up without their parents and their legs.
For your information I have spoken to A LOT of Iraqi people, and yes, they do want to get rid of Saddam, but they don't want their country under war. I have also spoken to our Serbian family friends before the bombings and they also wanted to get rid of Milosevic, but not by bombing. And that was one of the worst things that happened to them. They were crying on the phone to us every day because they were so scared. So I don't think you should judge what a nation thinks by talking to one of them. I don't think anyone would like it when their country would get attacked, and everyone would like to try other alternatives first.

[Timber Loftis]

But Spelca, what do you *DO*???? Talk to people all you want, 100+ Iraqis will die today. Why aren't you preaching about that. Talk a topic to death, but if you don't have another plan to achieve the goals - which you tacitly admit are fair - then quit preaching.

Hurry, I can hear the screams of dying Iraqis as we waste time.