More good news from Iraq

[Donut]

In Basra yesterday 30,000 Iraqis took to the street to demonstrate in favour of free, democratic elections. Looks like we're getting through to them at last. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end.

I am in complete accord with your sentiment.
Be nice to see them start to progress down the road to self governance.

[johnny]

Whoa, they're learning fast. Next thing you'll know there's a Loveparade sweeping through Baghdad.

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Pastry alarm!

[Skippy1]

US to 'refine' plan for Iraq elections
By Alec Russell in Washington
(Filed: 17/01/2004)


The White House conceded yesterday it might have to "refine" its tottering plan for the transfer of power in Iraq amid threats by the country's Shi'ite majority that there would be violence if elections were not held.



Impassioned calls by the Shi'ite leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, for full elections before the scheduled handover of power on July 1 have thrown American plans for a more gradual return of democracy into disarray.

Scott McClellan, the White House spokesman, said the July 1 handover was fixed but hinted a compromise on other details of the plan agreed in November might be in the offing. They would consider plans to "refine or improve that agreement", he said.

Yesterday, Ayatollah Sistani's representative in the Shia holy city of Karbala told a crowd that there would be civil disobedience and even attacks on US troops if America did not accede to the demands for elections.

Sheikh Abdel Mahdi al-Karbalai warned of protests and strikes as well as possible attacks by Shi'ites if America "insists on its colonial and diabolical plans to design the country's politics for its own interests".

The warnings came as America announced an inquiry into reports of abuse of prisoners at a coalition detention centre in Iraq.

In a statement, the commander of American forces in Iraq, Lt Gen Ricardo Sanchez, refused to give details of the alleged abuse, saying it would "hinder the investigation".

The Pentagon's chief spokesman, Larry DiRita, later said the allegations were "serious" and criminal and had been reported through military channels "very recently". They involved incidents on more than one day.

Tens of thousands of al-Sistani's supporters marched in Basra, on Thursday shouting: "No, no, USA. Yes, yes, for elections."

America had planned to set up regional caucuses to appoint a transitional assembly before full democracy some time next year.

US officials argue that Iraq does not have the infrastructure, including the voter rolls, to hold direct elections before the summer.

But it has emerged that the White House may give the UN a greater role in the transition in a bid to appease the ayatollah, who has threatened to issue a fatwa.

Washington's "proconsul" in Iraq, Paul Bremer, was summoned back for urgent talks with President George W Bush and his foreign policy aides yesterday.

Coalition officials fear that alienating the ayatollah could lead to unrest in the Shi'ite-dominated south, which has been largely untroubled during the past six months of insurgency in the Sunni-dominated north. Yet they are wary that full elections would lead to the Shias assuming power.

UN diplomats suggest that senior UN officials are looking for a way out of their year-long confrontation with Washington over Iraq.

The UN pulled out of Iraq in September after a devastating suicide bomb attack on its headquarters which killed its envoy, Sergio Vieira di Mello.

At the same time the administration is moving closer to a rapprochement with France, Germany and Russia, who opposed the war, suggesting that it might reverse its ban on allowing them to bid for contracts in post-Saddam Iraq.


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The problem lies in the Shi'ite majority coming to power and then oppressing the Sunni minority. The worry is that if the Coalition Forces pull out too early, the country could, and probably would, degenerate into Civil War.

[Stratos]

Isn't it the Shi'ite that's the minority and the Sunni the majority group in Iraq?

[Skippy1]

Sunnites and Shi'ites

Another source of conflict in Iraq has been the tension between the Sunni and Shi'ite sects of Islam. (The basis for the difference between these sects is discussed in the section on religion.) The Shi'ites are a decided minority in the Islamic world as a whole, comprising maybe one-twelfth of the total Islamic population, but Iraq, along with Iran, is the center of the sect, and over half of the Iraqis are Shi'ites. Throughout modern times, however, the ruling classes in Iraq have been Sunni, and so there was always the rub that the less advantaged sect constituted the majority of the population. The antagonism between the sects lessened considerably during the Iran■Iraq war, when the Iraqi Shi'ites remained loyal to Iraq despite the fact that there is a sizable percentage of Shi'ites in Iran (many Iraqi Shi'ites have relatives in Iran) and the Iranian government is Shi'ite. Since Desert Storm, however, the antagonism has risen again.

http://www.culturalorientation.net/iraqi/isoc.html

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Donut: In Basra yesterday 30,000 Iraqis took to the street to demonstrate in favour of free, democratic elections. Looks like we're getting through to them at last. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end.

In the nicest possible way, it wasn't so much getting through to them as getting to them that led to these protests.

As Skippy1's article points out, the Shi'ites are **VERY UNHAPPY** about the US's un-democratic plan to impose an unelected government upon Iraq.

I am often appalled by the apparent idea that arabs would want democracy if only they knew what it was. Well, I have news for those folks - they already know what it means and don't need us to 'educate' them.

Most Iraqi's want to choose their leaders by universal suffrage - they have wanted this for thirty years. When the US/UK invaded, they promised democracy - but instead they imposed an unelected 'Governing Council' and are planning on following that up with yet another unelected government.

Clearly they know what democracy is: well enough to know that the US\UK's plans for them bear no relation to the word.

[ 01-17-2004, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[Stratos]

I can be absolutely sure I've heard in the media about the 'Shi'ite minority' in Iraq, but perhaps I've heard wrong.

Well, thanks for clearing that out Skippy1.

Last I heard the US is trying to set up a governing council, in order to put into place machinery to have formal elections to make a Democraticly elected government. The only thing I know that the US will not allow, is a theocracy.

The person who wrote that article puts a lot of hate and spin into his work, his opening line was nothing but editorial contempt.

I also note that several inaccurate statements got made and no one seems to have bothered to point it out. THe US IS working on setting up fair and democratic elections. It isn't happening over night because you cannot do something like that overnight.

People have to be safe enough to gather at the polls without fear of being blown to tiny little voter crispies by the unhappy minority religeous zealots and illegal foreign "volunteers" who come accross the borders to stir up problems for the Iraqi's.

OR

Perhaps George Bush is going to annex Iraq and make it a county of Texas and give it to his big business oil buddies who intend to rape and sodamize the innocent women and children while carrying out the death penalty on any iraqi male who resists.......

or perhaps not. [img]smile.gif[/img]