USA, my friend, listen! : why the World hates America (not a bash... an eye opener)

Ryanamur · 10-19-2001, 09:00 AM

I debated for a while before posting this tread but I think that in the long run, it would help Americans (those on this site anyway) understand where the hatred is coming from.

I recognize the huge potential this tread as for degenerating into a pure anti-American or pure pro-American. That is not my intention and to the Mods, if this comes about, please lock the tread.

Before I start, let me tell you where I come from: I'm a Canadian and as such, have close ties to the USA. Let's face it, we are neighbors and we share the same values, we have pretty similar beliefs yet, when it comes to the international scene, we are not hatred. Now, I have travel extensivelly, though my travels have taken me mostly to Europe, I have also seen the 3rd world and talked with people in the 3rd world. I have a pretty good understanding of US foreing policy and a better understanding of international and your national policies than your President. So, now, let's get to business.

Around the world, people hate America, that's a known fact and to debate it would be to fail to recognize or accept the reality of it. However, contrary to popular American beliefs, they do not hate America because of "freedom", "democracy", "liberty" or any of the other bull**** reasons claimed by your government since the 9-11 attacks.

Around the world, people hate America for one simple reason (and yes, it boils down to this one simple reason): Americans are cocky!

You don't need to look very far to come to that conclusion. Just last night I was watching a David Leterman and Senator McKain (who by the way is a very exeptional man). The two of them were just talking freely and they kept making comments like "when we're done with them, they'll be back to selling camels... or whatever else they were doing", "God might forget them, but America never will", "we are the greatest nation on Earth"... Now, this as been going on for ages (since WWII to be exact).

That, simple cockiness attitude is present in many Americans (mostly our leaders and elites). They believe that America is the best nation in the world, they believe that the USA values should be accepted by all, they believe that they are always right and others are always wrong. It's fine to believe it, but don't rub it in.

Now, that's how you are ALL perceived around the world. I don't have a problem with it, because, that's pretty much who I am. I'm a cocky son of a bitch too. America is a great nation, with great people. Our world would not be where it is now, wouldn't have been for you and for what you have done. For that, I'm eternally grateful.

The problem is, when you try to convince, because of your cockyness, that your system is so much better than their; that your values are so much better than their; that what they believe in is idiotic because America is so much better than that.

Yes, America is so much better. However, America is also two faced to them. How can you stand there, talk about a free society when you try to force your beliefs upon me? That, my friend, is a problem. Your behaviour is not consistant with the whole basis of your society and people around the globe see that... and remember it!

------------

Now, like I said before, no bash, no flames. In fact, if it was for me, I would rather only non-Americans post here to echo (or quash) my assessment of how America is percieved around the world to help you understand the "why". But, this is a free society so post away.

EDIT: please understand that I'm not targetting any one on this board. I'm just passing a judgement on American society at large.
------------------
I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-19-2001).]

skywalker · 10-19-2001, 09:13 AM

Sorry Ryanamur, but I don't fit your description of the quintessential American. I guess I must not belong here!

Mark

Ryanamur · 10-19-2001, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:
Sorry Ryanamur, but I don't fit your description of the quintessential American. I guess I must not belong here!

Mark

Well, you can always move up North, we have lots of room here

------------------
I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

skywalker · 10-19-2001, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryanamur:
Well, you can always move up North, we have lots of room here

Well I am only 2 1/2 hours from Montreal! I don't think you guys up north want an unemployed PC builder, coming to live in Canada!

Mark

Ryanamur · 10-19-2001, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:
Well I am only 2 1/2 hours from Montreal! I don't think you guys up north want an unemployed PC builder, coming to live in Canada!

Mark

Sure, just say that you're a political refugee and will stick you in a nice hotel, pay you (and your family) lots of money, train you, help you find a job and finance a house.

Come on up, we're ready for you

------------------
I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

skywalker · 10-19-2001, 09:45 AM

Sorry, even though it does not seem so, I do love my country. I'm just not as gungho with the current government in place. We'll see in 2004.

Mark

Ryanamur · 10-19-2001, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:
Sorry, even though it does not seem so, I do love my country. I'm just not as gungho with the current government in place. We'll see in 2004.

Mark

I have no doubt that you love your country Mark. I was just playing around too.

------------------
I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

Kaz · 10-19-2001, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryanamur:

Now, like I said before, no bash, no flames. In fact, if it was for me, I would rather only non-Americans post here to echo (or quash) my assessment of how America is percieved around the world to help you understand the "why". But, this is a free society so post away.

In that case I shouldn't be posting - I'm actually an American citizen

Anyway, I can definetely see your point. America seems very arrogant from an international point of view, so it is no wonder that we Europeans (cannot speak for Asians, Africans etc.) don't exactly love the USA. Hearing people say things like "why oh why do people hate us so", I have been itching to post something like this for a while, but was afraid to get shot down by a flame. Good for you!

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DragonMage · 10-19-2001, 09:57 AM

Well, Ryanamur - another American here that doesn't fit the 'cocky' mold. I AM proud to be an American - just not proud of it's practices and policies at times. We AREN'T all cocky, but I see your point of how, if our most public people act like that, it makes us all look bad. I just wish the people outside of America who hate Americans in general would realize that we, like they, have not much say in how we are portrayed short of open anarchy. Most of us are nice and helpful and just want to live our lives in peace. Of course, right now, many people are stirred up, but wouldn't you be in a situation like this? Even if just a little?

Ronn_Bman · 10-19-2001, 10:07 AM

Maybe "they" think this, and "they" think that, but the truth is, like any people of a nation, we are entitled to national pride. If people start talking trash about Canada chances are you'll become defensive.

Why should we change our attitude?

We want to know why people hate American's enough to kill 6,000 civilians, not why we're not their favorite. That's a very different question. Nothing in your post answers that question.

I could care less about being the world's favorite. When they needed us, we were the favorite, and when they need us again, they will smile at the sign of all things American.

And not to be rude, but living in Canada, having visited other countries and studying US Foreign policy, does not give you any AMAZING insight into the situation. You are reacting to this issue with what you have been taught, just as American's are reacting out of our teachings. Sharing some of our feelings and belief's is great, but you're still really on the outside looking in.

Also, I don't really believe America is "cocky". Actually, I don't think it's a proper term to use regarding nations. We speak our beliefs, and act for our own reasons. We frequently bow to international opinion, much more than I think we should.

------------------

"The Martyr" (excerpt)

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand:
Beware the People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

--Herman Melville (written after the assasination of President Abraham Lincoln)

[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-19-2001).]

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10-19-2001, 09:00 AM	#1
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 1,763	I debated for a while before posting this tread but I think that in the long run, it would help Americans (those on this site anyway) understand where the hatred is coming from. I recognize the huge potential this tread as for degenerating into a pure anti-American or pure pro-American. That is not my intention and to the Mods, if this comes about, please lock the tread. Before I start, let me tell you where I come from: I'm a Canadian and as such, have close ties to the USA. Let's face it, we are neighbors and we share the same values, we have pretty similar beliefs yet, when it comes to the international scene, we are not hatred. Now, I have travel extensivelly, though my travels have taken me mostly to Europe, I have also seen the 3rd world and talked with people in the 3rd world. I have a pretty good understanding of US foreing policy and a better understanding of international and your national policies than your President. So, now, let's get to business. Around the world, people hate America, that's a known fact and to debate it would be to fail to recognize or accept the reality of it. However, contrary to popular American beliefs, they do not hate America because of "freedom", "democracy", "liberty" or any of the other bull**** reasons claimed by your government since the 9-11 attacks. Around the world, people hate America for one simple reason (and yes, it boils down to this one simple reason): Americans are cocky! You don't need to look very far to come to that conclusion. Just last night I was watching a David Leterman and Senator McKain (who by the way is a very exeptional man). The two of them were just talking freely and they kept making comments like "when we're done with them, they'll be back to selling camels... or whatever else they were doing", "God might forget them, but America never will", "we are the greatest nation on Earth"... Now, this as been going on for ages (since WWII to be exact). That, simple cockiness attitude is present in many Americans (mostly our leaders and elites). They believe that America is the best nation in the world, they believe that the USA values should be accepted by all, they believe that they are always right and others are always wrong. It's fine to believe it, but don't rub it in. Now, that's how you are ALL perceived around the world. I don't have a problem with it, because, that's pretty much who I am. I'm a cocky son of a bitch too. America is a great nation, with great people. Our world would not be where it is now, wouldn't have been for you and for what you have done. For that, I'm eternally grateful. The problem is, when you try to convince, because of your cockyness, that your system is so much better than their; that your values are so much better than their; that what they believe in is idiotic because America is so much better than that. Yes, America is so much better. However, America is also two faced to them. How can you stand there, talk about a free society when you try to force your beliefs upon me? That, my friend, is a problem. Your behaviour is not consistant with the whole basis of your society and people around the globe see that... and remember it! ------------ Now, like I said before, no bash, no flames. In fact, if it was for me, I would rather only non-Americans post here to echo (or quash) my assessment of how America is percieved around the world to help you understand the "why". But, this is a free society so post away. EDIT: please understand that I'm not targetting any one on this board. I'm just passing a judgement on American society at large. ------------------ I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential [This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-19-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-19-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-19-2001).]

10-19-2001, 09:13 AM	#2
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	Sorry Ryanamur, but I don't fit your description of the quintessential American. I guess I must not belong here! Mark

10-19-2001, 09:45 AM	#6
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	Sorry, even though it does not seem so, I do love my country. I'm just not as gungho with the current government in place. We'll see in 2004. Mark

10-19-2001, 09:57 AM	#9
DragonMage 20th Level Warrior Join Date: September 6, 2001 Location: The lighter side of life, a.k.a. Newnan, Georgia Age: 56 Posts: 2,767	Well, Ryanamur - another American here that doesn't fit the 'cocky' mold. I AM proud to be an American - just not proud of it's practices and policies at times. We AREN'T all cocky, but I see your point of how, if our most public people act like that, it makes us all look bad. I just wish the people outside of America who hate Americans in general would realize that we, like they, have not much say in how we are portrayed short of open anarchy. Most of us are nice and helpful and just want to live our lives in peace. Of course, right now, many people are stirred up, but wouldn't you be in a situation like this? Even if just a little?

10-19-2001, 10:07 AM	#10
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	Maybe "they" think this, and "they" think that, but the truth is, like any people of a nation, we are entitled to national pride. If people start talking trash about Canada chances are you'll become defensive. Why should we change our attitude? We want to know why people hate American's enough to kill 6,000 civilians, not why we're not their favorite. That's a very different question. Nothing in your post answers that question. I could care less about being the world's favorite. When they needed us, we were the favorite, and when they need us again, they will smile at the sign of all things American. And not to be rude, but living in Canada, having visited other countries and studying US Foreign policy, does not give you any AMAZING insight into the situation. You are reacting to this issue with what you have been taught, just as American's are reacting out of our teachings. Sharing some of our feelings and belief's is great, but you're still really on the outside looking in. Also, I don't really believe America is "cocky". Actually, I don't think it's a proper term to use regarding nations. We speak our beliefs, and act for our own reasons. We frequently bow to international opinion, much more than I think we should. ------------------ "The Martyr" (excerpt) There is sobbing of the strong, And a pall upon the land; But the People in their weeping Bare the iron hand: Beware the People weeping When they bare the iron hand. --Herman Melville (written after the assasination of President Abraham Lincoln) [This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-19-2001).]

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