Would you let the gov't trespass on your property?

[VulcanRider]

Does anyone have a clue how this turned out for the landowner? Apparently happened in November (last year, year before, dunno). An Indiana health dept. official trespassed on private property while the law looked on, and the owner videotaped it. The owner kept explaining that without his permission to enter the property, which was posted no tresspassing, she (health dept) needed some probable cause of wrongdoing and a warrant. She ignored him, & the cop let her do it.

There's about 9 minutes of video.
http://www.jumpingpixels.com/law3.html

[Amphetamine Machine]

I'd tell them to get off my property, and if a little stubborn after 3 tries, I'd grab a nine, hopefully they're more cooperative.

[VulcanRider]

Originally posted by Amphetamine Machine: I'd tell them to get off my property, and if a little stubborn after 3 tries, I'd grab a nine, hopefully they're more cooperative.

Or, after the cop shoots you, your property is crawling with gov't officials...

[Larry_OHF]

I think it depends on each state what the law allows, and if the health offical was backed by an officer, then maybe in Indiana the state can invade with probable cause without the need of disclosing that cause to the owner. I'll try to find something out on it later.

[Bungleau]

I suspect the US Constitution would trump state law on that one, Larry. The fourth amendment...

Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Any evidence collected should be tossed out. Note that I haven't looked at the video yet (maybe tonight, when I have some time). Perhaps my view will change, but my first question is why didn't the homeowner call the police to arrest the trespasser? If he did, then someone's got some 'splainin' to do...

[Felix The Assassin]

She is in the wrong. The Deputy is only supporting her based upon her offical credientals. The lanowner is very wrong, but hey, that's why we have our rights. I kept waiting for the 'go-for' to arrive with warrant to put closure on his dramatic experience!

[Bungleau]

Having watched all nine minutes, I stand where I was before. She's in the wrong. He's got a twisted view of the constitution, but he does have the fourth amendment part down.

The deputy... sorry. The "if you've nothing to hide, why don't you let us look" approach violates, in my mind, the fourth amendment. If you allow them, you're giving up the right. If you don't, then they presume you're wrong, use that to get a warrant, and you give up the right anyway.

Given the apparent location (a trailer in the woods), this has class struggle written all over it.

*sigh* It all could have been avoided (or at least reduced dramatically) if she had gotten a warrant, based on whatever information led her to do the inspection. If they were concerned about him hiding something away, they could have left someone to watch (from the road [img]smile.gif[/img] ) until the warrant returned.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Amphetamine Machine: I'd tell them to get off my property, and if a little stubborn after 3 tries, I'd grab a nine, hopefully they're more cooperative.

Yeah, cause bringing out a gun when the cops around usually helps one negotiate. The minute you get a gun, you're (a) shot and/or (b) arrested and likely (c) convicted.

This stuff happens 99,000 time a day folks. Government does what it wants. Do the regulations governing her job as health inspector allow her to walk on any property she wants without a warrant if she has a "probable cause?" Yes, most likely. Most regulations that the agencies write to govern their power grant them very broad power. I mean, if left up to you wouldn't your answer always be "Of course I have that power?"

So, you have to challenge the regulation in court, and have the court overturn it. The problem is that courts also like to agree with broad governmental powers.

And, yes, probably cause can be caused if you neighbor saw your ratty trailer and dirtpile and reported you anonymously via phone.

The solution? Well, basically it's bend over and take it. The other option is to fight back. How can you do that? Hmmm.... dunno, still working on that one. Maybe start looking into Libertarianism, local Militias, etc.

Oh, and the "If you've got nothing to hide..." argument is exactly the opposite of what the law is. You do not have to prove your innocence. The government has to know of and prove your guilt. Imagine a world that operates otherwise. Guards show up at your house every morning and you either prove you're innocent or get carted away. Lovely, huh.

I will be living as much of my life as I can behind nice sturdy tall fences and thick doors. That way they can't choose to breach my right. If they're gonna knock down a fence, you're damned skippy they're gonna go get a warrant.

[ 10-06-2006, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]